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There's also been the massive death of cruises. When I was 17 I was at a cruise somewhere every weekend, be it Wakefield/Pontefract/Donny or further afield. EVERY Sunday there would be well over 1000 modified cars gather. It was a place to hang out, take drugs and hopefully get into a birds pants. Now that has almost completely gone And this is part of the reason car scene in the UK took a massive hit, culture moved on and no one wanted to be associated with that 'chav' scene any more, because it was frankly destructive and kinda disgusting. So now we are basically represented by ill dressed middle aged bigots on TV, and kids don't want to be part of that. Which is why I was pleased with the Idris Elba show, he was much more compelling and presented a another interesting side of cars... It'll come around again I'm sure and everyone will start to complain about what the kids are doing to their cars, the same way people get their knickers in a twist over Stanceworks when it started. |
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I'm going to be 45 in a few weeks. The choices I've made over the last 28 years since I passed my test have seen a fair few cool cars. Now though with a mortgage, two children (one 9 year old petrol head) and work responsibilities, I find little time and money to fund my interests. That said, I still drive a fun car and have a project. The wife has a modern that just gets fuel put in it.
My 9 year old son loves cars, that's more from my influence and that of my friends than the media or any particular awareness of modern cars. He's my next generation and I hope to inspire him like Winston Sewell, Ray Mumford, Pip Biddlecombe and the bloke round the corner with a Jago Model B did when I was 14. If my son grows up not being able to take real things apart, look at them subjectively and make them better then I'll consider that I'll have failed him.
We have a joint project, a Fiat 126Bis that should create a bond between father and son even if we never get to take it up the hill at Shelsley or round Druids at Brands.
The point I'm making is it's partly up to us, the older generation, to keep kids inspired and to educate them. The manufacturers only want our money, they don't care about us restoring old cars, there's no money in it for them is there.
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Peugeot 307sw - Suzuki SV650S - MX5.
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There's also been the massive death of cruises. When I was 17 I was at a cruise somewhere every weekend, be it Wakefield/Pontefract/Donny or further afield. EVERY Sunday there would be well over 1000 modified cars gather. It was a place to hang out, take drugs and hopefully get into a birds pants. Now that has almost completely gone, its much easier to get into a birds pants by liking them on Facebook than spending hours building a car. Think what killed cruises, mass meets and anything like that was the Criminal Justice Bill - remember that, no gathering of more than 8? vehicles with permission from the chief constable etc etc etc. Loud music playing faces instant seizure etc. Face it the moment someone starts acting like a curse word (off the road) these days the helicopter will be out and there will be more attention from the boys in blue than you can imagine, most of our local hang outs got basically told they would be closed down if they allowed organised gatherings/ meets to continue. Added to that the fact that a lot of younger people would rather look at porn pictures on the internet and talk via instant messaging rather than interact with people in the real world. |
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I do feel a bit sorry for the younger generations (I am 31 in 3 weeks lol), we used to just drive to a empty car park or out in to the country and wrag the curse word out of our cars with *minimal attention from the police - not as easy as that anymore.
Didnt go to many crusies, maybe half a dozen but it was all word of mouth & following other modified cars.
The ones I went to were the bigger ones, like blackpool & Nottingham - they did get out of hand, burn outs left right & centre & generall chavyness but they were fun.
*Apart from the time we did it next to a police station, that didnt go down quite as well, but we did just get told to do it somewhere else lol.
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Last Edit: Feb 4, 2014 20:54:24 GMT by joem83
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*Apart from the time we did it next to a police station. Rmad and I did that once at Bluewater whilst having a photo session with my Volvo (I still miss it), right next to the Bluewater Station.....they didn't complain.  |
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Peugeot 307sw - Suzuki SV650S - MX5.
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Apparently am a year out of being one of these.
Issues with new cars is there soulless fridges, I have a 2012 Auris and its possibly the worst and best car I've ever owned it functions perfect as a car and will do anything I ask of it, yet on the other side its so boring its so plain but does allow me to look at things like 944s and other daftness.
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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grumpy
Part of things
Posts: 557
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I would say the criminal justice bill was more ment to prevent raves and free partys , as the government were bricking it a bout all of the leberal thinking from masses of party goers .
I think a big factor is just money . A car can be cheap enough but then theres insurance and if its a second car you may need storage . Many more people live in flats with only a allocated parking space . Many parts of the country do not have affordable car storage . Also the hooby has to die for many when they get around to house deposit time unless they have bank of mum and dad .
Also kids have grown up without seeing helping fix cars in the street etc so have little or no knowledge or want to gain this or car mechnics - how many basic questions do you see asked on here ? How many people answer to anything complicated ??
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I would say the criminal justice bill was more ment to prevent raves and free partys , as the government were bricking it a bout all of the leberal thinking from masses of party goers . Twas ment to and it was publised as such, but was such a vast and sweeping piece of legislation you could use it (at the time don't know if it ever amended) to justify shutting down just about anything you wanted to even if it was a regular organised event on private land with the land owners consent, especially if any form of motor vehicle was involved. I was involved with motorsports at the time and it caused a huge headache when the full implications came to light. Something I can remember was the talked about introduction of an offence of criminal damage to the land itself i.e you could be charged for breaking a blade of grass, churning up the field, spraying bits of burned rubber into the undergrowth off the tyres or whatever Also kids have grown up without seeing helping fix cars in the street etc so have little or no knowledge or want to gain this or car mechnics - how many basic questions do you see asked on here ? How many people answer to anything complicated ?? Yep 100% right about that, I always used to see people working on cars in the street, kids passing dad the wrong spanner - getting covered in grease and oil and having a ball, you get looked at like an alien doing work in the street now. A lot of the boys in my school had some form of powered machinery to play with or had mates who had a field bike or go kart and would spend time 'fixing' them and learning at the same time when they inevitably broke down miles from home, there's no chance you could get away with anything like that now, we used to use the old pit tips and abandoned railways as well as a couple of fields (with the farmers blessing once the crops were in) as riding areas - with the pressure on land and focus on antisocial behaviour (there is always one dick who spoils it riding round the local nature reserve) etc there is just nowhere to go without getting in trouble hence not as many people interested when younger and they don't get the habit of fixing things. I think the forum is pretty good at answering questions, some of the more complicated and obscure ones especially as their are some people with (to my mind) extraordinary skills on here but yes there are some very basic questions asked regularly which most people growing up in my area in the 70's maybe 80's would have known the answer to, however if you haven't got someone to turn to and ask or the haynes book of lies doesn't help then it is good to be able to ask for another opinion. A talking to an apprentice plasterer at work i asked if he would be off to see the world once he was qualified/ trained - his answer was oh no I can look at pictures from anywhere with the internet so don't need to  I just don't get it. Wow that post went on a bit sorry about that, just my 2 pence worth, don't want to upset anybody so feel free to disagree and throw raw fish or whatever |
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Last Edit: Feb 4, 2014 22:25:33 GMT by dodgerover: Added a bit more
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 348 
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I'm going to be 45 in a few weeks. The choices I've made over the last 28 years since I passed my test have seen a fair few cool cars. Now though with a mortgage, two children (one 9 year old petrol head) and work responsibilities, I find little time and money to fund my interests. That said, I still drive a fun car and have a project. I'm a similar age and think we had it much easier than today's generation when it comes to funding a car-based hobby. I think it's mainly down to the ratio of costs to wages. My first car at 17, a Mini, was £300 and I paid £150 to insure it. I was at college, had a Saturday job at a supermarket and a Sunday job on a market stall and earned about 30 quid a week in total. That was enough to go out drinking at weekends, buy petrol for hooning about with mates and still buy all the regulation go-faster bits that every Mini needed to have bolted on. There were no phones, laptops, video games or other gadgets to soak up teenagers' money (and time) in those days. After years studying (on a grant and living a proper student pauper existence - no student loans to be lumbered with for life then either) I got a good job on 17 grand a year at about 22. I could easily afford a mortgage on a 3 bed semi (40 grand then, about 250 now) and after paying the bills had plenty of spare cash to run a couple of interesting classics. 25 years or so later and petrol, food and bills are about triple what they were and rent/mortgages which are completely off the scale. But wages haven't risen anything like that. The recent graduates where I work, doing the same sort of job I did at that age, are earning nowhere near an equivalent salary and just can't afford the luxury of a car just for a hobby. In fact, these days, even I would struggle too buy, and more importantly pay for the fuel for, some of the cars I used to own. Ah... student motoring days  |
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There are lots of reasons for 'Millenials around here (Oop North  ) to not bother with cars   Rural communities are becoming "retirement villages" or holiday-homes-only as youngesters have to (or want to) move into the towns & cities (either for work or to get a better social life) Towns and cities are becoming bigger, so public transport between the residential areas improves and cars aren't needed. More people in towns means more crowding - so more congestion and more difficult to get a parking space (so a car becomes a problem not a benefit) I recently spent 18 months working in our local city alongside many intelligent, well educated, 'Millenials. Their lives seemed to revolved around city living & partying, socialising locally, or staying indoors to play with net/pc/hi-spec tv systems etc. They don't need a car with their lifestyle. Add in sky-high insurance and ... how many reasons would you like  The yoof of today, huh  |
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Isn't it caused because freedom isn't found on the open road (which is fully jammed and full of cameras nowadays), but because freedom and camaraderie are found in an unregulated virtual world, only a finger press away? Anyway, not all hope is lost...  |
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 Click picture for more |
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The average price for a 17 year old lad to insure a car is about £3000 a year,plus £150ish in tax plus maybe £25 a week in fuel plus an mot at £35 once a year.so about £4500 a year in total to drive.a 17 year old apprentice wage is £90 a week I think,so £4680 a year.anybody else see the problem I do, you've missed off £180 of go-faster bits. lol. |
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It was a response to this quote and your selective choice of old vs. modern car. It was a generalisation but that's undeniably the way the manufacturers are going. It used to be so much more achievable to own something with a bit of character and performance but these cars are now massively outnumbered by mere 'appliances'. This always intrigues me, as I've got stacks and stacks and stacks of old car magazines here, and I can virtually pull any random handful out from the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s or 90s, flick through and find comments in the letters pages, or complete articles, all complaining that "modern cars are just appliances". It seems that most new cars have always been boring, dull, bland appliances. Most new cars only get interesting when they get old. Very few cars, relatively speaking, are interesting when new, and it seems to have always been the same. |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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There's also been the massive death of cruises. When I was 17 I was at a cruise somewhere every weekend, be it Wakefield/Pontefract/Donny or further afield. EVERY Sunday there would be well over 1000 modified cars gather. It was a place to hang out, take drugs and hopefully get into a birds pants. Now that has almost completely gone And this is part of the reason car scene in the UK took a massive hit, culture moved on and no one wanted to be associated with that 'chav' scene any more, because it was frankly destructive and kinda disgusting. So now we are basically represented by ill dressed middle aged bigots on TV, and kids don't want to be part of that. Which is why I was pleased with the Idris Elba show, he was much more compelling and presented a another interesting side of cars... It'll come around again I'm sure and everyone will start to complain about what the kids are doing to il cars, the same way people get their knickers in a twist over Stanceworks when it started. It was, but it was proper fun. Street Racing, drink driving, drugs and everything else that went with it were my life for a few short years. They were massively anti-social and I look back now and wonder how so many of us got away with it for so long, but at the time they were FUN. None of this segregated by marque/style/class of car meets like it is now, where spirited driving is frowned upon. |
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This is a really interesting debate. I'm 43 on Friday so you might think that I would have missed the days of paying silly money for car insurance. However, my second car (MKV Cortina 1.6GL) got stolen when I was 18. I missed the hot hatch revolution completely because I couldn't afford to insure one. That never dampened my enthusiasm though.
My daughter is 17 this year and has been car-mad since she was a toddler. Obviously she wants to learn to drive but car ownership with the expense of university looming seems highly unlikely. When I was 17 it cost £25 to put me on the insurance of my Dad's Civic with severe limitations on how and when I could use it. I looked at the prospect of buying a cheap small runabout to use as a family hack (not fronting - there's no way she would be going to college in it every day and I would be using it for work) but insuring one for me, Mrs K and daughter is going to cost about 5 or 6 times the £350 the Saab costs, even with the same limitations in place.
If their enthusiasm is dampened, it's not much of a surprise.
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Jaguar S-Type 3.0 SE
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Am only 25 and its really hard to find any spare money or time for cars mainly due to bills and tax. Theres weeks where all my pay goes on paying bills and tax and then I get hit with overuseage charges for buying food for my young family. So I can see why lots of people don't brother with cars. At the monment because I really want to get a better life a (and some nice wheels) am working 6 days week from 6 till 5:30 some days till seven. Its nice having the money but leaves little time for anything else.
rant over thanks
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All is not lost, there are still teenagers who love cars. Last weekend I took my 16 y.o. brother to buy his first car - a 1984 Porsche 924 which he is absolutely chuffed to bits with. As soon as he got it home he thoroughly cleaned it inside and out, and on Sunday he spent a load of time cleaning and polishing the engine bay.
Growing up he has enjoyed plenty of his time messing around with various cars of mine so he's already gleaned enough experience to maintain it. I would imagine the service items are on order already. :-)
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'03 Porsche 996 C2 3.6 - Sort of Retro
'84 Porsche 924 - Definitely Retro!
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Am only 25 and its really hard to find any spare money or time for cars mainly due to bills and tax. Theres weeks where all my pay goes on paying bills and tax and then I get hit with overuseage charges for buying food for my young family. So I can see why lots of people don't brother with cars. At the monment because I really want to get a better life a (and some nice wheels) am working 6 days week from 6 till 5:30 some days till seven. Its nice having the money but leaves little time for anything else. rant over thanks Don't think that has ever been any different whatever generation you come from though, it's just a different set of challengers, but kind of works out the same. I was your age in 85, houses were loads cheaper obviously, but the interest rate went up by the week until lit hit 16%, can you imagine that now. Car insurance was cheap, but cars weren't, a rough old dog of a mk2 escort, with a Fred Flintstone floor & rotten sills, was, like a grand & that's when a grand was a lot of money. I worked 7 days a week for 300 & something days in 1993 cos I had two kids & a mortgage, but I did try to have one reasonable car. Roll on a few years later, kids left home mortgage paid & I have 7 cars & a load of motorbikes, but not a hope in hell when I was younger. |
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I was your age in 85, houses were loads cheaper obviously, but the interest rate went up by the week until lit hit 16%, can you imagine that now. Just checked & my repayments would tripple, my dad would have had the same issue in 1981 when he bought his house, but his was £16k mine has a 0 after it. It's all relative, but it is interesting at the same time. |
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dan
Part of things
Posts: 589
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Insurance, fuel price, condition of roads, apnr cameras, legislation, congestion, lack of parking space, etc have all done their bit but I'd also suggest the mobiles and hanging out online have also had a significant effect. When I in my youth we'd drive round to each others houses and think nothing of a hundred mile round trip to the seaside at midnight for a smoke. If I was 17 again I'd probably be hanging out online playing GTA5 as there are more and easier places to spend your time and money. All isn't lost but the world and economics has changed.
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I just don't get it.
) to not bother with cars 
Rural communities are becoming "retirement villages" or holiday-homes-only as youngesters have to (or want to) move into the towns & cities (either for work or to get a better social life)
