Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Apr 27, 2013 16:18:33 GMT
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Hey all One for the floor. Our Bongo has a realy nasty steering wheel wobble at motorway speeds (over 60 steadily gets worse). A run up the M4 gave me pins and needles in my hands and must be damaging the car. I've had the wheels balanced (twice) and then swapped for a known good set and even that didnt help. Its got 16" aftermarket wheels and appears to be studcentric - the standard steel wheels don't locate on the spigot. Mazda forum seems to think it might be related to air in the steering rack (its got a very slight weep) causing that wheel to vibrate. However i'm not 100% sold as the i've put some Holts PS sealer in the rack and the fluid level hasnt dropped noticeably recently (steering is fine and smooth). As thr system is a constant pump surely any air would bleed out? Just had an MOT and no mention of any knackered bushes. Wondering whether something is bent somewhere... Any thoughts? Cheers Tim 3 by Tim Cave, on Flickr
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Last Edit: Apr 27, 2013 16:21:31 GMT by Tim
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Apr 27, 2013 16:42:03 GMT
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Hi, it does sound like the rack. There is probably play between the rack and the pinion. You may not be able to detect it but the vehicle can. It just starts bouncing in the play and just gets steadily worse. If you drop the speed off below 40 mph and it eases off then yes. It wants the pinion adjusting/shimming or reconditioning, your choice.
Sorry if this not what you want to hear!!
Colin
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Apr 27, 2013 17:06:29 GMT
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If the wheels aren't buckled or out of balance then there is likely play in the steering causing this. Check your TREs and for free movement of the steering wheel before the road wheels start to turn.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Apr 27, 2013 18:19:47 GMT
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Might be a knackered damper (MoT test isn't very demanding of them) allowing a wheel to hop. Will be visible from a car driving along side.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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bortaf
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Posts: 4,549
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Apr 27, 2013 19:25:49 GMT
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How much wieght did it take to balance the wheels ? i've had a few where they balance ok but still vibrate at speed, when on the balancing machine you could see the wheel was buckled but it still balenced, the thing is you only balence the wheel at the wheel machines speed not necersaraly the speed you do on the road ?
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R.I.P photobucket
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Apr 27, 2013 19:34:16 GMT
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I would inspect the wheels carefully, see if you have got a slightly egged tyre. You can balance out a big of 'eggage' on the tyre balancing machine but on the car the steering will be all over the shop. Its also worth jacking up one wheel at a time and trying to wobble the balljoiints etc and inspect the driveshafts to see if anything is wobbly there or if a mass damper has come adrift off the driveshaft.
It doesn't sound like the steering rack to me, steering racks don't have any spinny bits so they don't set vibrations off - they only transmit or don't transmit, vibes that have started off somewhere else. You've got to find the source of these vibes and NAIL 'EM! If it does turn out to be the steering rack I will pay £10 to MacMillan cancer charity.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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tubbs
Part of things
Posts: 59
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Apr 27, 2013 20:41:38 GMT
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Id put my money on a mis shaped tyre as well tbh. Eggy ! Probarbly on the front....
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Apr 27, 2013 20:48:52 GMT
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Jack the front end off the ground and let the thing idle in gear, you'll easily see if the tyre is cockled/wheel is miles off center etc.
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Apr 27, 2013 21:10:26 GMT
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What i find interesting is that the standard wheels are not hub centric, but this has aftermarket wheels. Also, to go completely off on a tangent, is that pop top the type that is like a massive tent on the roof? Always fancied one of those for my bus.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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ewokracing
Part of things
Snuffling for food in a river
Posts: 502
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Apr 27, 2013 22:11:11 GMT
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not a worn wheel bearing allowing play somewhere?
if you've tried two sets of wheels and had the same issue, chances of two bent rims or dodgy tyres? maybe mix and match or try rotating the wheels around?
Cobblers idea is a good one.
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Apr 27, 2013 22:13:08 GMT
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Cheers all - really helpful
I've run it with a known good set of front wheels/tyres with their nuts as well (they run fine on another bongo) and it didnt help - annoyingly. So I don't think its a balancing issue, or a tire egging issue. Sorry mr plums, but i'll let you off as you may not have read the bit about swapping the wheels :-)
I was expecting to need to fit spigot rings with these alloys but the centre bore on the original steel wheels is bigger than the spigot, so they must locate on the studs? I was very surprised by this...
I'll check the rack/bushes/damper and report back.
Cobblers - its rear wheel drive :-) There is no noticeable vibration through the body of the car so i'm pretty sure its in the front steering/suspension/wheels
Rev - yep pop up roof tent - like a fibreglass roofed tent, with a sunroof. Mines an electric one as well - very snazzy :-)
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Last Edit: Apr 27, 2013 22:18:34 GMT by Tim
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Apr 27, 2013 22:15:46 GMT
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Is this 4wd? I'm thinking worn uj on the front prop.
EDIT, just saw its RWD. Scrap that.
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R.S. Autotech. Servicing/Repairs/Diagnostics.
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Apr 27, 2013 22:22:15 GMT
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Oh, and it wobbled with a previous set of tyres...
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djefk
Part of things
Posts: 844
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Apr 27, 2013 23:47:22 GMT
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Check your wheel bearings and all front suspension and steering joints for play
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I Had some wobble on the carlton which i was sure was the front end, Quite bad over 60 as well.. Vibrating the steering wheel in my hands, And making the dash wobble like a curse word...
Until i got a puncture on the rear and changed the wheel to the spare... Turned out to be the rear wheel out of balance and a realy buggered inner edge of the tyre.. Got a new set of Goodyears on the back and its fine now..
That said.... My centre tie rod is not long for this world too... which is causing some wobble, But then thats accompanied by a clunk over big bumps. So got one of those on order.
Got Any pulsing through the brakes?
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bortaf
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Posts: 4,549
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Apr 28, 2013 13:40:27 GMT
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Cheers all - really helpful I've run it with a known good set of front wheels/tyres with their nuts as well (they run fine on another bongo) and it didnt help - annoyingly. So I don't think its a balancing issue, or a tire egging issue. Sorry mr plums, but i'll let you off as you may not have read the bit about swapping the wheels :-) I was expecting to need to fit spigot rings with these alloys but the centre bore on the original steel wheels is bigger than the spigot, so they must locate on the studs? I was very surprised by this... Cobblers - its rear wheel drive :-) There is no noticeable vibration through the body of the car so i'm pretty sure its in the front steering/suspension/wheels i was just about to warn you it's RWD could of been nasty if you didn't realise and yes people can be that thick, i changed a flat tyre the other day for a woman who came in complaining of dodgy steering, she had noticed it was flat but changed the wronge one ? WTF it's the one that's flat at the bottom i had to lol it had taken her 2 hours and she was in tears I've never had air in a rack cause this but it could be a model specific problem? but i am of the opinion that it will be something that revolves causing this not something that's static when on the move, i am allways suss of aftermarket alloys especialy when larger than standard. I chased one vibration on a customers car, even after the owner had swapped wheels around, they were ALL fooked, he also said it had new tyres but they were 3 years old and had just sat in a garage with the wieght of the car on em, every single one needed over 130 grams to balance, the tyres were flatened from being parked so long (something a LOT of campers suffer from), a small over pump and a journey to reheat the tyre can solve it but the lower the sidewall the more perminant it is IME ?
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R.I.P photobucket
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Apr 28, 2013 17:22:22 GMT
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Again - cheers all Two tyres were new Pirellis last August but the others are of unknown provenence - loads of tread left but could have been stood. I'm gonna get it down to the barn this week and get her chocked (with some suitability big bits of wood and the supplied chocks) and up on axle stands at the rear so I can run it in gear and check the tyres / alloys - and then swap F->R and try again. I'll have a look at the front suspension for play but I think i'll struggle to notice it unless the wear is obvious visually. DOOFUS ALERT When people mention a worn 'pinion' - what part would this be? Google does not help significantly: This is a bongo rack for reference - I need to get a seal kit anyway
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bl1300
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,678
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Apr 28, 2013 18:12:42 GMT
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in answer to you question of what the pinion is.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44 1974 VW Beetle 1303s 1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV 1988 VW LT45 Beavertail 1998 Volvo V70 2.5 1959 Fordson Dexta
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Apr 28, 2013 18:32:01 GMT
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Ah ok...looking for bongo pinion didn't help and I didn't think simpler :-)
Well there is no noticeable play or looseness in the steering, bit that doesn't mean a great deal.
I've driven cars with leaky racks and knackered tie rods and the steering was fine at speed. Obviously this doesn't mean its.NOT the problem but...
I'll investigate and see what I can deduce :-)
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Apr 28, 2013 19:49:55 GMT
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Is there a steering damper on these? We had exactly the same with a Range Rover, - it wasn't obvious it was knackered either but I used to refuse to drive it over 40 mph it was that bad - perfect below though..
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