mym
Part of things
Posts: 443
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Nov 11, 2012 21:54:42 GMT
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i'm trying to sell a set of rims at the mo and someones asking me if they will fit their car.
the PCD is correct, but the centre bore is 1.7mm different (63.4mm - 65.1mm), his being the smaller 63.4mm measurement
i'm sure i read somewhere that the centre bore is very important at keeping the wheels on, but i cant think why.
can anyone enlighten me, and what i would need to make these rims fit the other car
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Copey
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,845
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Nov 11, 2012 22:01:07 GMT
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they keep the wheels central to the hub, which is quite important, its not the most important thing in the world, but it is better to get it right, can always sort spigot rings to make up the extra gap
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1990 Ford Sierra Sapphire GLSi with 2.0 Zetec 1985 Ford Capri 3.0 (was a 2.0 Laser originally)
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Nov 11, 2012 22:01:40 GMT
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the centre bore keeps the wheel centred on the hub and so is very important!
Some wheel have tapered bolts which also help centre the wheel but some are flat faced and so rely on the lip on the hub to centre the alloy, so the centre bore on the alloy must match
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Centre bore - how important?Robinxr4i
@robinxr4i
Club Retro Rides Member 143
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Nov 11, 2012 22:42:04 GMT
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Centre bore isn't (that) important.....
If the wheels you are fitting accept tapped bolts or nuts, and the wheels are exactly the correct PCD.
Centre bore is important......
If the wheels use sleeved, washer or wobbely nuts (or bolts)
There are several hundred threads in the bowels of RR regarding this.
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Nov 11, 2012 23:37:53 GMT
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I'm fitting some wheels this coming week with that exact difference in centre bore. (I'm guessing you're selling a set of Citroen or Peugeot wheels to someone with a Ford?)
Even though there is only 1.7mm difference (0.85mm gap) I'm still fitting spigot rings. It's just that peace of mind thing that elimiates any doubt about the wheels coming off/loose etc...
Because the difference is so minute compared to a lot of other spigot sizes, a lot of people don't bother but I'd rather spend the extra £15 (yes, they are a lot more expensive than all the other sizes of spigot rings out there!) and know they're fitted as securely as I can get them.
Food for thought.
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Nov 11, 2012 23:42:21 GMT
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With a wheel bolt set up the wheel hub is load baring and is therefore crucial for a snug fit or else you'll get a vibration through the steering at about 45mph+
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,665
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Nov 11, 2012 23:53:37 GMT
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As another thought - and i'm in no means saying its correct, i'm no engineer, actually i'm an IT hardware specialist!!! - but wheels are held on by clamping forces rather than, err, the bolts taking the weight, so whilst location is important, a few mm wont make much odds, go spin a factory steel on your hub, I bet theres a good 5mm run out, so if its good enough for them etc etc...
Granted, i'd want it nice and centred, but I have ran without spigots with wobble bolts without any un-toward effects or driving feel.
Like I said, there might be, many reasons why i'm wrong, but i've done it, it was perfect, the car was used in anger, nuns and kittens are still alive.
Discuss
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sparkyt
Posted a lot
selling stuff
Posts: 1,767
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Few coats of paint would take up the difference between the two once its done up in the centered position its not going to move ...
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both the cars i have don't have matching centre holes . Never had any trouble with wheels coming loose or shaking . The beetle comes as this from the factory btw
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if sparks don't fly you're ridin too high !
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Centre bore - how important?stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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With a wheel bolt set up the wheel hub is load baring and is therefore crucial for a snug fit or else you'll get a vibration through the steering at about 45mph+ That's not true at all. I've never bothered with spigot rings in any of the wheels I own. If you aren't a spaz and can do wheel bolts up correctly it isn't an issue. For such a small difference if you're that bothered just put a couple of layers of electrical tape round the spigot.
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I've ran wheels with hand-dremeled holes for the wheel bolts, with an inch difference in center bore size on cars that have been driven in anger for long periods without problems, but on the other hand I splurged out on a set of spigot rings just a few weeks ago, beacuse you could feel the wheels wobble at low speeds.. Bottom line - the guy will be fine without them, but even finer with them. And some food for thought for the safety brigade -
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Last Edit: Nov 12, 2012 9:05:33 GMT by dude
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With a wheel bolt set up the wheel hub is load baring and is therefore crucial for a snug fit or else you'll get a vibration through the steering at about 45mph+ Not necessarily true. Air-cooled VW and Porsche wheels had wheel bolts and were a clearance fit to the centres, as shown in the photo dude posted. Many other cars have used the same approach. As long as the wheel bolts self-centre and seat correctly, the wheel is secure. Remember that the actual mechanism for holding the car's weight is the friction of the wheel's mounting face against the brake disc/drum. The normal force to create this friction is supplied by the wheel bolts/nuts. As long as they are done up tight, the wheel is not going anywhere. The centre spigot is only used to ensure that the wheel is located in the centre when it is torqued down. After that, it has no further role to play.
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,824
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Hubcentric----- not so sure its essential, for me, looking as an engineer, clamping force is what holds the wheel on, the taper on the wheel nuts is what centralises the wheel, it has for the last 100 years, Early VW and Fords of the 30s, 40s and 50s being my examples, The object of the centric bore is to support the wheel while you put the bolts into the hub, check out wheels that use studs they don't rely on the centre to locate them, taper seats or sleeve nuts both do the same,
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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mym
Part of things
Posts: 443
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Nov 12, 2012 10:16:39 GMT
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I'm fitting some wheels this coming week with that exact difference in centre bore. (I'm guessing you're selling a set of Citroen or Peugeot wheels to someone with a Ford?) Even though there is only 1.7mm difference (0.85mm gap) I'm still fitting spigot rings. It's just that peace of mind thing that elimiates any doubt about the wheels coming off/loose etc... Because the difference is so minute compared to a lot of other spigot sizes, a lot of people don't bother but I'd rather spend the extra £15 (yes, they are a lot more expensive than all the other sizes of spigot rings out there!) and know they're fitted as securely as I can get them. Food for thought. close, there rims off my old Volvo V70 (2002) and someone wants to know if they'll fit a new Volvo V60 the PCD is the only difference, but i think i'll tell him no to be on the safe side, i don't want any comeback if he ends up in a ditch
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Nov 12, 2012 13:43:16 GMT
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PCD = bolt pattern (Pitch Circle Diameter), not centre bore.
Imps are stud-centric and the wheels don't fall off those - I wouldn't worry about it overly, just be sure to do the wheel bolts up stepwise in a diagonal pattern. However, spigot rings are ESSENTIAL if you are using wobble bolts as they provide no centering at all.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Centre bore - how important?10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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Nov 12, 2012 17:15:24 GMT
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In my experience, spigot rings are a must, not for saftey but for refinement, as has been said, done up tight the wheel's going nowhere.... BUT in cars with no spigot rings and oversize wheel centre bores, i have ALWAYS noticed a vibration at some speed, varies from 20 to 90mph and from the merest hint of a tremor to a full blown steering shake in my personal experience, but it's always there...
You can remove 90% of it by clocking the wheel central by eye and nipping it up, but tbh for the tenner it costs to do it properly, is it worth it? Also if you were changing a flat in the dark before a motorway trip, i think you'd be mighty glad you coughed up the tenner!
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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With a wheel bolt set up the wheel hub is load baring and is therefore crucial for a snug fit or else you'll get a vibration through the steering at about 45mph+ BTW, with this post I'm not saying that the wheel'll fall off with the incorrect centre bore. No, that'd be a stupid thing to say/assume. It's just that the wheel bolts are only there to hold the wheels on. They are designed to handle lateral forces that push the wheel away from the mounting face. With the hub and centre bore being flush means the wheel can't move up or down on the mounting surface! Driving without a hub-centric wheel then you risk damaging your bolts if there was a bump (i.e. Mounting a kerb/big pothole). Bent bolts means vibrations, simple as. So yes, you could locate a wheel with oversized cb with self centring cone shaped bolts but you do risk damaging them!
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Driving without a hub-centric wheel then you risk damaging your bolts if there was a bump (i.e. Mounting a kerb/big pothole). Bent bolts means vibrations, simple as. This is not true at all. Please see my earlier post regarding the mechanism of holding wheels on. The bolts are not loaded in shear. The load is transferred to the hub by friction.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Centre bore - how important?stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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LOL. If you hit a kerb hard enough to bend all 4 wheel bolts you'd have a damn sight more to worry about than that the bolts were bent. I've personally never seen a bent wheel bolt after impact. Bent wheel yes, smashed wheel yes, but not bent bolts.
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