RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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May 23, 2012 11:47:41 GMT
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I'm wondering if anyone on here's clued up as to the legalities of home built trailers?
I'm wanting to build a light weight car trailer (~1250kg gross weight), but I've got no idea if it's legal, and if it is, what I'd have to do to get a weight plate and stuff put on it to make it fully legal.
Any advice on it would be brilliant, as it'd make a nice summer project.
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May 23, 2012 12:03:42 GMT
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No legal problems building your own, needs to comply with construction and use regs, i.e mudguards, brakes if applicable, no sharp pointy bits. Should be able to work out the weight plate based on a trip to the weigh bridge and the suspension units you use. Beware of making it too high or you risk being done for the chance of you overloading your tow vehicle even if you are empty.
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May 23, 2012 19:54:25 GMT
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I can't see a problem if it's properly built and looks like it's properly built : lights, mud-guards, good (braked) tow hitch, twin axle.
We built our own transporter a few years ago, and it's never been a problem.
It can be pricey buying all the right bits and lots of steel, though.
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May 23, 2012 20:09:30 GMT
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You will need auto reverse brakes. My advise is buy a modern scrap caravan chassis and use the axle / hitch off that rather than buying new. The chassis will be worthless for adapting as they tend to be very flimsy compared to traditional caravan chassis. The suspension is rubber in a tube so easy to cut a section out of the middle and narrow to whatever width you require.
Paul H
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May 23, 2012 20:12:50 GMT
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You will need auto reverse brakes. My advise is buy a modern scrap caravan chassis and use the axle / hitch off that rather than buying new. The chassis will be worthless for adapting as they tend to be very flimsy compared to traditional caravan chassis. The suspension is rubber in a tube so easy to cut a section out of the middle and narrow to whatever width you require.
I've got two trailers. Erde 102 - smallest available from Halfords and a folding / tilting 8' x4'. In the past I've made trailer from scratch but as others have said it can get expensive and I found actually cheaper to buy ready made !
Paul H
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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May 23, 2012 20:40:00 GMT
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So it wouldn't need inspecting by VOSA to be road legal then? I'd literally just build it, stamp in a chassis number and make up a weight plate my self and thats it done? That's great, but seems too little red tape to be correct in 2012 in England!
I realise it may start adding up cost wise, but at least it wont be in one hit, plus I'd be looking at ~£1300 minimum for the sort of thing I'm wanting, which I can't imagine a few hubs/brakes and a pile of steel adding up to.
Besides the cost, I'm after quite a specific gross weight, and I figure building the trailer my self would allow me to manage that without messing around down-plating a bought trailer, and I can add a few personal touches along the way, it'll basically be built around my Mini, but with enough space to squeeze a small/medium sizes hatch on it.
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oxb1l
Part of things
Posts: 254
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May 23, 2012 21:25:01 GMT
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I was told They were in the same league as towbars in that if it hasn't got a manufacturers build Plate you are onto plums if you need to make a claim.
Worth checking
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Need a bigger garage !
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May 23, 2012 21:28:50 GMT
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I realise it may start adding up cost wise, but at least it wont be in one hit, plus I'd be looking at ~£1300 minimum for the sort of thing I'm wanting, which I can't imagine a few hubs/brakes and a pile of steel adding up to. You might be in for a shock. Obviously you may be sourcing secondhand but if new budget around £75 each for wheel & tyre (x 5 if you want a spare), £350 for suspension units (x 2), £170 for braked hitch making £1245 before you add cost of steel and other bits. I'd say you will be looking at more like £2000 than £1300. At that amount there are loads of ready made trailers that are better bargains even if you have to then modify for your own needs. Above prices from Towsure - www.towsure.com/I reckon something like this might be ideal for your purpose plus hitch folds so reduces storage length so it'd fit in a domestic garage / lock-up www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brian-James-single-axle-Minno-Trailer-with-hitch-up-front-leg-/200762211875?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2ebe5c3e23Paul H
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May 23, 2012 21:44:20 GMT
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Oh. Robin, I'm really sorry to have to be the one that breaks this information to you. Especially after your post about Wiscombe had reminded me what great times I'd had there, but: Trailer IVA. Starting on 29th October 2012. A trailer like you're proposing would come into the O2 trailer category. There were lots of guidance notes and a manual available online a few months ago through the business link site. But that seems to have been moved. Some info here: www.transportoffice.gov.uk/crt/repository/IVA-Guide-version-30-Dec.pdfwww.dft.gov.uk/vca/additional/files/vehicle-type-approval/trailers/trailer-seminar-pdf.pdfAnd I have an electronic copy of the manual if you want to pm me an email address to send it to. Good news: - Test is only £70 or so
- Most of the requirements are pretty sensible, and are straight forward anyway.
- Still no separate registration number for trailers in this country (ie, how do "they" know if the trailer is new, or just thoroughly "rebuilt"?....)
- There's 5 months before 29th of October. Get cracking!
So, yeah, it's a bit curse word, but it could have been so much worse. From a technical point of view, building a trailer is a great idea. You'll have to work out if the economics work for you. Buying an old trailer or caravan might be the best way to get parts cheaply. If you want new parts, go direct to the people who seem to supply a lot of the trailer firms: Peak trailers. They make the rubber torsion axles to the width you want and can weld on extra brackets for mounts and brake cables, etc cheaply.
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May 23, 2012 22:29:37 GMT
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Further thoughts: Paul H is right, building trailers can get pricey. I built a 3000Kg capacity trailer recently for a fairly small budget, and FWIW, this is what I'd suggest: - Search ebay for a 2nd hand 1500Kg braked hitch / coupling £100
- Have just one axle. I'd use a 1500Kg Peakride torsion rubber axle from Peak trailers. Don't bother buying two individual suspension units, just go for a complete axle. Specify hub face to hub face dimension and how many brackets and where you want them. Wait two weeks and it's made. I paid £250+vat for a 1500Kg axle. I chose a Land Rover stud pattern.
- The Land Rover stud pattern means you can use LR wheels with 205R16 tyres. These are easily available and can cope with the load (but check b4 proceeding) From ebay, I paid £100 for a set of 5 defender rims with excellent Michelin tyres on them. I didn't even have to paint them.
- You'll probably need £200+ worth of steel. My advice is to phone all the steel suppliers you can find. I thought the prices would be pretty similar, but I found someone who supplied steel for 50% of the price of a well known supplier. And they'd deliver to a residential address.
- I suppose you'll need the trailer to accept low cars, so you might want to have some kind of tilting bed. The 16" dia LR wheels will push the height of the axle up a little, but the fact that one axle can cope with the 1300Kg load and the tyres are cheap and readily available means that I think I'd engineer my way around that!
- Check out TrailerTek website for lots of trailer parts - they supply lots of little fittings, hinges, lights and stuff that are hard to find anywhere else. Good prices too. I'm not on commission, just a satisfied customer.
- Cheap trailer lights (£4 per cluster!) are the work of the devil. I once installed one on a foggy evening. The next morning corrosion on the bulb holder had stopped the light working. Buy good ones or, even better, LED ones!
I hope that helps
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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May 24, 2012 10:25:35 GMT
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Thanks guys, all sounds like good advice. Just to complicate things a little, I should have said, but I'll be making the suspension/axle my self, as I've got a specific design in mind for it. Which is a whole bunch more work for me, but will save a big chunk of money.
That's a bit of a curse word about the trailer IVA, thanks for the heads up, but at least it's cheap, and I've got no problem with meeting the regulations, just more red tape, although to be honest I was surprised there wasn't already a test for them. I'll hopefully have it done by October anyway though, the idea will be to do this strait away as fast as possible, so I can use it to shift my mini around during the build. The mini will be 650kg maximum, so 99% of car trailers big enough, with low enough entry are waaayyy overweight for it, and as my tow car's only ~1300kg, so the lighter the set-up the better. Basically I want something a decent size, but with only a ~1000kg load, as I'll only really be needing it for race prepped cars, which can be deceptively wide/long, but don't tend to weigh much at all.
It's probably worth mentioning that it will be a twin axle too, it'll mostly see motorway miles, and I want the extra stability considering the tow car's relatively light.
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Last Edit: May 24, 2012 10:55:52 GMT by RobinJI
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May 24, 2012 13:25:02 GMT
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rear axle off a fwd car based van is probably a good starting point.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 24, 2012 13:52:40 GMT
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rear axle off a fwd car based van is probably a good starting point. hence me keeping the rear axle off my escort van when it got written off sounds like ile have to make sure i do it before november then! I'm making my own as I'm fed up of all this weight plate plums too, I'm gunna make a large-ish box trailer to match the pickup bed on the budget pickup, then probably a mega-lows car trailer too. theyll be towed with something thats way too old to worry about having a plated towing weight, and the trialer will also be unplated, so the only thing i can possibly fall foul of if overall train weight being too high. mkaes it a lot simpler. renault master ones are also good if you want heavier weight axles. the guy in the unit next door to me had a beavertail car trailer he made specifically to move a f150, and it moved my parisienne and a buick regal too. he then cut it up to make an even bigger one to put a boat on!
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May 24, 2012 15:20:55 GMT
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^^^^ You built that trailer years ago didnt you? Yes, I am sure you did. Trailers built after.....I can't remember the cutoff date - early '90`s I believe...... are supposed to have auto-reverse brakes that meet a minimum efficiency that just is not possible from the rear brakes of a car or van. Nothing to say you cant "freshen up" a trailer you built years ago that pre-dates this regulation though.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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May 24, 2012 15:22:55 GMT
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Car based van axle is a good idea, but wont fit in with my plans unfortunately. The sus I've got planned is pretty straight forward, but fairly unusual. I'm gunna keep quiet about the actual design until it's done, but the only thing I'll need to buy is the hub assembly and hitch, although if they'll meet the regs I could be tempted to use VW rear stub axles for the hubs, plentiful and cheep with drums and they're attached with 4 simple old bean bolts on a flat surface, plus being 4x100, sets of 4 13" steels with tyres that'll easily take 1300kg are available off pretty much every 90's hatch-back without a ford badge, so are silly cheep.
Ok, sounds like I'll have to scrap using VW brakes then.
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Last Edit: May 24, 2012 15:27:21 GMT by RobinJI
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May 24, 2012 15:54:19 GMT
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Just buy an old trailer to the rating you want and rivet the plate on,will save you a whole load of hassle mate and for gods sake who cares if you've "rung" a trailer!!!!
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 24, 2012 16:46:17 GMT
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Car based van axle is a good idea, but wont fit in with my plans unfortunately. The sus I've got planned is pretty straight forward, but fairly unusual. I'm gunna keep quiet about the actual design until it's done, but the only thing I'll need to buy is the hub assembly and hitch, although if they'll meet the regs I could be tempted to use VW rear stub axles for the hubs, plentiful and cheep with drums and they're attached with 4 simple old bean bolts on a flat surface, plus being 4x100, sets of 4 13" steels with tyres that'll easily take 1300kg are available off pretty much every 90's hatch-back without a ford badge, so are silly cheep. Ok, sounds like I'll have to scrap using VW brakes then. you can still do it by playing with wheel cyl/master cyl sizes to get the efficiency robin, assuming youd doing a hydro setup that is and not just using the handbrake like a lot of people do. and yeah, ive got a trailer or two 'in stock' here to form the basis of a 'new' one, which is handy.....
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May 24, 2012 16:54:04 GMT
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I got stopped my VOSA who inspected the nearly new £1200 Indespension trailer I was towing over with a "fine tooth comb". In the end they just gave me an advisory about a cracked light lense but worth noting they do have roadside checks so be wary about using car or van brakes as they aren't the legally required auto reverse type. Also AFAIK hydraulic trailer brakes aren't allowed but to be honest can't find anything confirming that or otherwise. I think the autoreverse requirement makes hydraulic operation difficult anyway. Pity we can't have electric operation as in US.
Paul H
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 24, 2012 16:57:52 GMT
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youre not allowed hydro brakes now? ive used at least two trailers with em in the last few years
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May 24, 2012 17:09:23 GMT
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youre not allowed hydro brakes now? ive used at least two trailers with em in the last few years I used to have an ex AA car transporter with hydraulic brakes that worked fine. It also had rod operated handbrake. I've been searching and it would seem the law is worded such that if a mechnical handbrake and auto reverse then hydraulic might still be legal. Doubt there are any auto reverse hydraulic brakes systems made though so that sort of kills the argument for their use Far easier to rob a caravan of it's hub drum and backplate to adapt that than modify a car / van mechanism to auto reverse. Paul H
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