Indie
Part of things
Wtd : Carlton/205 bits
Posts: 154
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I have been thinking about this since the economy driving thread …..and the £1000 track day car thread.
Ok so I live in the sticks and can't get the 21 miles each way to work (via the primary school) except in a car and as (obviously) brand new has never concerned me (and spirited driving on the roads is discouraged) I can't help but think that several of the attributes of a fun (rather than straight line quick) track day car and one modified to eek out every drop of juice are very similar - so if we're playing with this a bit lets say I ;
1- Strip it out and put in the lightest weight seats I can find which will be bucket, psudeo race car seats ….
2 - Bigger brakes to stop me when I carry too much speed into a corner or roundabout
3 - Better handling to retain speed on corners and roundabouts
4 - Put some bigger alloys ? on to increase the gearing - obviously there are two sets of these as one set has sticky track tyres on, one has taller budget tyres pumped up to quite high pressures.
5 - Change the oil and filters very frequently
6 - Buy the right car in the first instance - I am I wrong to assume my starting point is a compact, lightweight, FWD, turbodiesel made in France ?
Any and all suggestions gratefully received - and I'll post some thank you photos when I get home.
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Hi! I've thought about this a lot. I even tried it to a certain extent. And then I calculated. And my conclusion was: it's not worth it. Unless you can save an EXTREME amount of fuel. Say 50-60%. Which is pretty much impossible with a road going vehicle & road driving conditions. You still burn 'a lot' of fuel for a few pennys saved. I for myself decided it's not worth it. Especially if you take into consideration that you still burn all the fuel in your tank, but get the least joy out of it. Basically the JOY vs. SAVINGS calculation has a negative outcome. I for once am a petrol head. I enjoy burning fuel with a terribly innefficient motor vehicle. Fun means fast cornering & hard acceleration in MY terms. Or the occasional 'cruising'. Whatever mood I'm in. I drew the conclusion: I want the most fun out of every drop of fuel I burn. And that's how I drive. On the other hand that doesn't stop me from keeping it steady sometimes or drive reasonable with economy on my mind. On my commute to work p.e. Or to make it short: drive as you like. On a road going vehicle on the road it'S just not worth the effort, resp. vice versa the sacrifice is too high. I rather spend a bit more money on fuel and drink a beer less. And to be honest: this decade is probably the last, where 'wasting' fuel is payable! So enjoy it, while you can! In fact, I'm thinking about buying a car with a LARGE engine. A six cylinder or a V8 - as long as it's affordable for the average John Doe BURN ALL THE FUEL!! ;D [edit] And on the same time, I'm not saying 'forgett about it'. If you can get a scienetific joy out of saving every drop of fuel you can on public roads - do it!! Actually, I think it could be a very enjoyable challenenge. Just not for ME.
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By a Honda C90 100+ mpg is possible and only £15 a year to tax!
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Your economical set of road tyres want to be as hard and skinny as possible so they offer as least resistance as they can. Moon type discs reduce the amount of air disturbance across the wheel helping them slip through the air. On Ecomodder.com they often fit side fairings, block the radiator grilles and other openings and make flat bottoms for the cars. I've also seen diffusers near the wheels to deflect air away from them and under the car instead. Stripping out as much weight as you can bear also helps.
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Aerodynamically modified and stripped AX GT would fit the bill quite nicely.
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2 - Bigger brakes to stop me when I carry too much speed into a corner or roundabout too late at that point! make and model of the vehicle would help, most with decent pads work just fine without adding excews unspring rotating weight. 3 - Better handling to retain speed on corners and roundabouts good plan, if needed, again depends on the car, just learning to drive it properly would help. 4 - Put some bigger alloys ? on to increase the gearing - obviously there are two sets of these as one set has sticky track tyres on, one has taller budget tyres pumped up to quite high pressures. no, lighter smaller skinny wheels with something like a Michelin energy wrapped around them at the correct, not excessive, pressures. 5 - Change the oil and filters very frequently no need, simply follow the manufacturers recommendations 6 - Buy the right car in the first instance - I am I wrong to assume my starting point is a compact, lightweight, FWD, turbodiesel made in France ? Doesn't have to be a TD, the right petrol engined car can match them especially when you take into account the difference in the price.
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OVY871
Part of things
Owner of Austin A35 Saloon
Posts: 322
Club RR Member Number: 66
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Can Hyper-mpg ever be fun ?OVY871
@ovy871
Club Retro Rides Member 66
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-Taller wheels/tyres combo will increase gearing but also if you could change the differential to one from a similar car so it has taller gearing?
-Turbo's can be a eco device aswell as a power device for a couple of reasons, it can let you have a smaller engine but still get reasonable power outputs, it also can help the engine get the correct amounts of air so it can burn efficiently.
-Lowered cars can be beneficial in multiple ways aswell, better cornering so you are able to carry more speed through corners and also should reduce your frontal area as wheels and axles may become hidden.
-Mirrors could be changed for more aerodynamic versions as these can affect MPG quite a bit apparently (check out eco concept cars, they tend to have cameras instead of mirrors)
Also with consideration to fuels is it MPG or money saving you want cause it may be worth considering LPG rather than diesel. (means you get to keep a petrol engine if your prefer them and with a high MPG petrol it might be cheaper to run than the equivalent diesel, its worth checking at least)
Edit: btw with everything I say check it cause I may be completely wrong, this is just what I have learnt off others.
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Last Edit: May 1, 2012 14:29:22 GMT by OVY871
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Get an older derv engine (with a mechanical VE bosch pump) and try to get a direct injection (DI, vw or Rover L-series) over indirect injection (IDI, all pug engines, along with ford and vauxhall) as DI engines are more efficient
you can cruise, and get an easy 60+mpg, or plant your foot, get 300+lb/ft of torque after tuning, and CLOUDS of thick black smoke ;D
Best of both IMO
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You're like a crazy backyard genius!
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Can Hyper-mpg ever be fun ?Robinxr4i
@robinxr4i
Club Retro Rides Member 143
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On Ecomodder.com they often fit side fairings, block the radiator grilles and other openings and make flat bottoms for the cars. Just spent the last half hour looking at that site, completely mental This 1.5 Civic regularly hits over 70mpg (imperial, not US!) combined on a 300+ mile trip....
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Last Edit: May 1, 2012 15:26:48 GMT by Robinxr4i
Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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jasonj
Part of things
Posts: 220
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I've always been of the impression that Diesels could never be fun to drive... until now. I have one of them compact lightweight turbo diesels made in france as Indie politely put it. lol. I regularly get 45mpg which isnt a huge amount But.... it runs on SVO (veg oil) which a pay £1 a litre for, and what a difference that makes. The fuel pump and boost have been tweeked to give around 110-120 bhp and its plenty to have fun down the lanes. best of both worlds...?? I think so.
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Team Supercharged Opel Ascona 400. 294bhp - 235 lb/ft
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What about MKI Skoda Fabia VRS (1.9 diesel) ?
Paul H
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Can Hyper-mpg ever be fun ?Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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or you could just buy a 1.4 tdi sport lupo to get 70mpg, and you wont get the sh1t ripped out of you for driving a wanky old pile of curse word with road signs nailed over all its orifices. plus its a fun, chuckable little car great for the twisties (on coilovers at least), and even absolutely thrashing the off it itll do about 60mpg, so you really stop thinkning about having to drive it like a granny anyway. plus, its 30 quid a year to tax rather than 120 odd, which will save you more money in a year than the difference in fuel economy will.
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To answer the thread title I find it's a really fun thing to do in short bursts (especially not slowing down for corners on skinny eco tyres) but quickly get tired of restraining myself when it's time to speed up again therefore I take a different approach.
After discovering cheap classic insurance and how many cars actually qualify for a classic policy I can wholeheratedly recommend having at least one fuel burning fun car and one mpg winner.
I myself mostly drive the MX-5 or the 535 as my fun cars while the super slow W124 250D wafts it's way to 45 mpg with a very relaxed driving style on a mixture of diesel and used veg oil.
I'm pretty sure all three of those cars together cost me less to own, tax, insure and MOT than the mildly sporty modern BMW I had a couple of years back.
Rob
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'55 Austin A30
'71 MGB GT
'72 Datsun 240 shed
'72 Mercedes 240D
'79 Firebird
'86 Austin Maestro Van
'91 Mercedes 250D
'91 BMW e34 535i Sport
'92 Mazda MX-5
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consider the costs of buying lightweight race seats, big brakes, new alloys and tyres, the time and cost of making aerodynamic mods under the car etc etc versus the real world amount of money you'll save by gaining another 10mpg. I think the cost of the mods would take years to pay back on fuel savings. It's not worth it. Use what you have available to you and just make the most of it. Empty your boot of curse word you're carrying around. That's a free mod that will pay (little) dividends in terms of fuel economy even if you don't change your driving style. Ditch the spare wheel and jack in favour of a can of puncture repair goo. Tell the girlfriend/wife/kids to walk. All these weight saving endeavours will help MPG figures for little or no additional outlay
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On Ecomodder.com they often fit side fairings, block the radiator grilles and other openings and make flat bottoms for the cars. Just spent the last half hour looking at that site, completely mental This 1.5 Civic regularly hits over 70mpg (imperial, not US!) combined on a 300+ mile trip.... Chances are thats a Civic VEI (uk) which was Honda's attempt to make an ultra efficient petrol engined car,using the d15Z1 with lean burn, these are used across the pond (called VX over there) for hypermiling, or using the engines in CRX's as they are more aerodynamic. Easily capable of 60mpg without all the aerodynamic rubbish. See hatchback part of this en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_Civic_(fifth_generation)
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Last Edit: May 1, 2012 20:04:45 GMT by bigfella2
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You could try to run on thinner engine and gearbox oil to reduce friction.
The rolling resistance can be reduced by going 20mm smaller on tyre width and putting more pressure in them.
The air resistance could be improved with lowering the car, putting wheel discs on the rims and getting some bodykit (or just a nice rear spoiler and front air dam).
Ecomodders forum is nice to get lost for several hours on this subject.
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Click picture for more
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I like this topic on the "because you can" level. Its proper geeky which is appealling
but
some of the mods will save like 0.001 mpg some will save 1mpg. Which are which and how do you effectively A-B-A blind test to know? I mean I just put 5w30 fully synth oil in the '81 Buick. Last tank I got 21mpg. I was also wearing a James Ray Gangwar t-shirt. Silly example but when multiple variable change you don't know what causes result in which effects
ecomodder is a fascinating site
I often think I'd like to take something like a big old Cadillac Fleetwood and ecomodder it up to like 30 MPG and then I realise whacking on an LPG kit would have the same effect on my wallet, probably for much cheaper outlay and for no loss of comfort or functionality in the vehicle...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Another thing I don't think has been mentioned - Additional insurance costs for modifications, an annual cost that would add to the miles you'd need to do in order to actually save money.
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