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I'm going to show you a picture of a car.  Know what it is? It's a Geely CK, and it's made in China. It's a normal modern small car, by no means the best the world has to offer but probably not the worst either. Like all the other modern FWD cars it will be a perfectly acceptable package, bland but let's face it, pretty good for what it is. When it hits the UK, as I expect it to in the next couple of years, it will cost about 4 grand on the road. For that price I doubt I will be the only person wondering why they should bother paying over twice that for a similar bland clone small car made by Volkswagen, GM or Ford because even if it turns out to be not as good as the GM/VW/Ford and only lasts 4 years for that money you can throw it away and treat yourself to a new one. When a Polo with all the toys and the expensive engine like the one I drive turns out to have the scarcely credible feature of headlight bulbs needing a dealer visit to change (unless like me you are prepared to spend 1/2 an hour swearing at the Wolfsburg designers!), you start to realise that something's wrong. Maybe cars like the Geely will be the wake-up call the European manufacturers have needed in my opinion at least for the last decade or more. |
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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But you can bet your bottom dollar that the GeeKy will...
(a) score nil points in the euro NCAP
(b) have a hefty mark up attached by the importers so it's not SO cheap
(c) will depreciate faster than a big rock in a lake
These things matter to Mr & Mrs new car buyer.... alot.
They care not about actual depreciation, just percentages. They care not that NCAP is bollcocks.
Just the way of the world. Like people who spend £1500 on a 'Sony' laptop that is no different inside to an 'Advent' for £500.....
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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I'm quite interested in them Geelys, if they can put them on the road for 4 grand they'll sell regardless of quality. They should raid the parts bin and make it so all the mechanicals and service stuff are shared with other cheap cars too. Thing is I bet they'll come with a pretty plush interior spec as standard. That's the kind of thing that will sell them - people in that price bracket aren't bothered about styling, quality etc. You tell them they can have a 4 grand car with aircon, satnav and cheap half leather seats and they'll be sold.
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i was looking around the workplace at posters of verious car interiors (i work for a company that makes them for different cars you see) and i noticed all of them were grey and cheap looking. now this was the same on every poster. surely the last colour you would choose to show off an interior would be grey? plus they all looked the same with minor changes such as folding seats or tvs in the headrests.
GREY?!? only old cars look good in grey and thats only becuase it was the colour of the time!
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But you can bet your bottom dollar that the GeeKy will... (a) score nil points in the euro NCAP (b) have a hefty mark up attached by the importers so it's not SO cheap (c) will depreciate faster than a big rock in a lake They're crafty chaps, these Chinese designers, they notice when those pesky Europeans come up with safety standards and they make their funny little cars a bit stronger to pass them!  In all seriousness, cars like the Geely are not the kind of thing we're used to from Communist countries, this isnt some two stroke Long March Forward Over The Capitalist Running Dogs People's Utility Tractor that's had a modern body put on it, it's a modern car just like any other. And when I said they'd cost 4 grand I wasnt joking. My guess is they'll be not much more than a grand in quantity to the importer at the dockside. At those prices who gives a t055 if it depreciates faster than a Citroen XM, keep it for 3 years and throw it away! I never said it was particularly good, just that for the price it's going to make the bland-n-bloaty European competition look like the overcomplex and overpriced yawn-ware it has become. Think of the extra 5k or so you'll pay for a 2009 Polo as a sort of "scene tax"! A good browse through www.autoindex.org is somewhat of an eye-opener, just tot up the production capacities over there and check out some of the models they're coming up with. Remember there was a time when Japanese cars were viewed like you see the Geely, then a little Daihatsu with a separate chassis landed on the dockside... |
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Last Edit: Nov 6, 2006 21:31:49 GMT by herald948
"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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I seew what you are saying, but Daewoo was predicted to "clear up" because of its well spec'd cars at rock bottom prices and no-pressure salesmen. Look what happened to them... Chevrolet-Europe's proportion of the market is pretty much insignificant.
Did the Perodua Nippa set the world on fire? Or did people pay twice that for a base model Corsa?
Before them Skoda and Lada duked it out at the bottom end of the market, not bad cars for their time, but people laughed openly at them because they were cheap.
The two flaws in your arguement are the fact that the Brits in particular are brand snobs and due to a lack of any discernment of quality judge almost everything on its list price. A m ate of mine sells guitars. He imports them from Taiwan. He used to sell them as "quality made replicas of xxxx, made in taiwan £149.99." and listed all the fine features. Nobody bought them. So he listed them as "was £395, now £200 to clear!" They sell like hot cakes.
The other thing is nobody cares that a Polo takes 30 minutes to change a bulb. Nobody maintains their own car any more. Nobody's about to start doing it again either.
What this will do is take us further down the route of cars being consumable items/white goods. Run it 4 years throw it away. In which case why service it at all?
What should be happening is that cars become better quality and more expensive. They should spend the money they need to on safety, eco and recyclability features. The price goes way up, but that just means people need to take a bit better care of them and make them last... kinda like the old days...
All this rampant mass production is destroying the environment and is not a sustainable economic model either.
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Last Edit: Nov 7, 2006 9:05:28 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I`m no economics expert but I wouldnt have thought that would do anyone any harm.
If new cars were more expensive not only would it cut down on waste from new car production but there wouldnt be as many decent cars going to the crusher for stupid reasons, if new car prices went up, so would second hand ones, and suddenly that perfectly good R-reg Kia Mentor that you werent going to bother testing up as it wasnt worth anything is shown up in a different light.
Might even end up with a situation like there is in Malta - everything from Anglia 105s right the way through to brand new stuff with everything in between all sharing the roads, plenty of variety and no-one cares how new the car is, new cars are bought as required. Which would be ideal.
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Agreed. I'm not pushing cars like the Geely as something particularly good, I'm just expressing the hope that a semidecent bland grey car for sub 5k will force the makers of bland grey cars for 15k to make them less bland and grey.
I don't agree that people wont buy Chinese cars on snob value. Every other industry has found out the hard way over the last few years that people are only too ready to buy cheap high quality stuff from China. If it's not the Geely that makes the impact it will be another manufacturer but it will happen and who knows - it might have a good effect elsewhere in the market.
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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Whats more likely is that GM or Ford will build a car in China (possibly Geely will build it for them) and they will then sell it at full price and pocket the difference.
Yeah, a lot of people will buy cheap stuff. But how many of us buy Aldi beans and how many of us buy Heinz or HP beans? How many of us still buy Hovis bread when Tesco Value is probably just the same.
When was the last time you heard a girl say "Yeah, I'm wearing Superdrug Deoderant, so much cheaper than Chanel Number 5"
etc.
We have successfully replaced an understanding of value or quality with brand snobbery in this country.
This is what the Chinese makers will have to overcome.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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A better example is how many people don't buy Sony electicals but buy Chinese brands. Someone further up the list said cars are becoming comoditised, well that's a few years behind what happened in the electrical goods market.
The choice between a 60p Heinz tin and a 20p Tesco Value tin is a no-brainer because you're only talking 40p. If the same were the case in cars you wouldnt be able to buy a sub £10k car.
However before this thread strays too far I should say I was only using the Chinese cars as an example to illustrate my point that "better" cars have become so bland that a cheap Chinese car can compete with them.
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"Jeremy Clarkson, a man we motor enthusiasts need on our side like Lewis Hamilton's F1 car needs a towing ball and a Sprite Musketeer" My motor |
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I think cars are less bland now than they were in the early/mid 90s and thats when Daewoo tried "just as bland but cheaper" and failed.
We will see.
You're probably right for at least part of the market. But eres people who won't buy Vauxhalls (or Fords or "insert brand name here") because they are cheap / chavvy / common / whatever.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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That coment on wheelarches hits the nail on the head - cars virtually don't have front wings anymore, it affects the smaller cars the worst - big fat clumsy, dumpy bodies on big wheels that just fit the arches, they look like kids Duplo cars or something. Playmobil.  ;D Isn't that a Twingo? ;D |
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Prius T-Spirit, Alfa 156 Sportwagon, Alfa 75 TSpark Veloce, Mazda MX-5 1.8iS
Honda VFR750FT, Ducati 750SS, BMW R100RT, Hongdou GY200
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