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Hi guys, I have a Mk2 2001 Punto that I brought it as a non-runner with a knackered head gasket. Sorted all that, checked the head (was fine) all new gaskets, new oil, filters, cambelt, tensioner and water pump. Started it up and it's making a 'tink tink tink' noise from what sounds like the 3rd cylinder (I've put a peice of wood against the rocker cover while running and it sounds above the 3rd). Changes speed with engine speed too. First off I changed the plugs, the old ones were knackered. No differance. Changed the leads with some known good one, same. Checked the timing, that's all fine. I made marks to make double sure it was timed right an it is. I had a spare coil pack that I definatly know is in good working order. Again, the same, still got this noise. I've taken the injectors out and had a look and they all look OK, but I didn't get the chance to swap them round. I whipped the rocker cover off today to have a look at the cam to see if there was anything I could see. Upon removing the four bolts that hold it down, one of them has rounded off the thread on the head, so it's lifting up on the one corner (bottom left). With the cover off all of the cams look burnt. They've gone a brown colour on the lobes that doesn't rub off. The car is quite under powered as well, so I'm guessing it's not firing on the 3rd cylinder. Still to do is a compression test, but I haven't brought one yet, so will be doing that soon. Other than that, the only other likely suspect is the ECU. I do have on off a Cinquecento that should be suitible, but that is the very last resort. Can anyone shed any light on this or have any ideas? Pleeeeeeeeeeease  |
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Quick misfire check: listen to the exhaust note at the back of the car - you can hear the noise from each 'combustion event' without the masking mechanical noise from the engine. It should sound smooth and even. If not: a regular miss (ie the same cylinder every times) is probably a mechanical fault (such as a bent valve), an intermittant miss is more likely to be electrical in nature. Quick and cheap compression test: put a thumb over the plug hole, hold the throttle open, and spin over on starter. Should positively blast your thumb off the hole - if not, then low on compression. Compare to other cylinders for a reference. This is no use if it's a twin-cam engine with the plugs down a long narrow tube.  |
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Feb 26, 2012 19:54:55 GMT
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Cheers matey  I didn't get a chance to have a look/listen today, but IIRC, the exhaust note does change in rhythem to the miss. I can only get my hand onto the first sparkplug hole to becasue of big hands/inlet manifold in the way, so I think I will have to get a tester for that. |
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the cinq brain won't work its coded to key & imobiliser you'll have to change lot.
it sounds like its been well cooked .
presume its an 8v fire eng. if so the valves don't hit the pistons so very doubtfull its a bent valve.
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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I've got everything needed for the Cinq ECU Kept it all to stick on eBay. Yep, it's the 8v fire engine. Valves looked all OK when I took the head off. But yes, I think your right, the valves won't touch the pistons. Forgot to say in the first bit. All of the bores and piston tops looked in good order. |
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Feb 27, 2012 13:34:51 GMT
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if its been well and truly cooked then it could have melted the piston rings to the piston........
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,832
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Feb 27, 2012 15:09:48 GMT
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you have got the leads in the right order??? just to confirm a spark is there, pull the No3 lead off the plug, put a spare plug on the lead, hold to earth and crank the engine over, you should see a spark,
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style.
Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Punto firing on 3?ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Feb 27, 2012 19:44:52 GMT
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If it is has been mildy overheated for a period of time there is a chance that the valve seats have sunk into the head and possibly that a valve has been bent in the process.
My old Mondeo on its first engine was quite similar (and that was gutless too (compared to my sister's 2.0, my 2.5 V6 couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding and it suffered from appalling MPG in comparison to the new engine!)).
A compression test beckons. If you are near West Brom or come over Warwick way, you are welcome to borrow mine.
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Last Edit: Feb 27, 2012 19:48:47 GMT by ChasR
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Feb 28, 2012 20:08:19 GMT
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if its been well and truly cooked then it could have melted the piston rings to the piston........ Balls. Will the compression be down if this is the case? you have got the leads in the right order??? just to confirm a spark is there, pull the No3 lead off the plug, put a spare plug on the lead, hold to earth and crank the engine over, you should see a spark, Leads are in the correct order. Stupidly though, I haven't checked for a spark there  Assumed a coilpack would sort it. Thinking about it, it might be that there is no power going to the coilpack. Will check this out ASAP If it is has been mildy overheated for a period of time there is a chance that the valve seats have sunk into the head and possibly that a valve has been bent in the process. My old Mondeo on its first engine was quite similar (and that was gutless too (compared to my sister's 2.0, my 2.5 V6 couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding and it suffered from appalling MPG in comparison to the new engine!)). A compression test beckons. If you are near West Brom or come over Warwick way, you are welcome to borrow mine. Thanks for the reply. Looks like a compression test is definatly the way forward. Thanks for the offer matey. West Brom isn't a million miles away from me, but I could do with getting one myself anyway. Looking on eBay, there around the £12 mark posted. Although, dubious of quality. |
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309jazzpanda
Part of things
so its just my pug thats rotten?
Posts: 92
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Feb 28, 2012 20:40:58 GMT
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these are uber uber common for the ecu fault, if your compression test come up ok and you've checked for spark out of the coil you need to test the feed down to the coil. If you've got access to autodata you can get the wiring diagram up for this, I can print it off but don't have a scanner, unless you can go retro and i'll fax it over.
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1990 309 "the pig"
1993 205 gtx "mummra"
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Feb 28, 2012 20:48:40 GMT
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Fiats eat ECU's so I would suspect that but there is still other items to eliminate first!
Check for a spark on all the cylinders, I'm guessing you gapped the plugs when you changed them?
Change the injectors over and see if the problem moves cylinder. When you do a compression test do a wet and dry test for all the cylinders.
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Feb 28, 2012 21:35:29 GMT
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Failing coil packs on these cause a miss on 2 cylinders.
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Feb 28, 2012 22:01:50 GMT
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Fiats eat ECU's so I would suspect that but there is still other items to eliminate first! Check for a spark on all the cylinders, I'm guessing you gapped the plugs when you changed them? Change the injectors over and see if the problem moves cylinder. When you do a compression test do a wet and dry test for all the cylinders. Yep, gapped the plugs correctly. Next time I get a chance to look at it, I will be swapping the injectors round to see if it's that. these are uber uber common for the ecu fault, if your compression test come up ok and you've checked for spark out of the coil you need to test the feed down to the coil. If you've got access to autodata you can get the wiring diagram up for this, I can print it off but don't have a scanner, unless you can go retro and i'll fax it over. I know how tempremental the ECU's can be, the buggers  I do have Autodata, so can pull the wiring diagram off it, so will be doing that too. Failing coil packs on these cause a miss on 2 cylinders. Ah, true. Forgot that. |
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Feb 28, 2012 22:24:36 GMT
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Unless its a single point injection punto,what engine is it?
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Feb 28, 2012 22:31:04 GMT
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It's a 1.2 8v, but it's one of the earlier Mk2 punto engines with only one lambda sensor.
188A4.000?
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Feb 28, 2012 22:33:26 GMT
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Should be single point injection , so only 1 injector and no others to swap with,as others have said a compression test is the first thing i would be doing.
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Feb 28, 2012 22:43:26 GMT
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Feb 28, 2012 22:46:26 GMT
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Yeah, that's four injectors. First thing to do before doing anything with fuel and ignition is compression test. 
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Feb 28, 2012 22:52:28 GMT
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Aye deffo not a Spi then!
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Feb 28, 2012 23:12:08 GMT
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Right, I'm not going mad then I'll be getting a compression tester tomorrow then |
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Assumed a coilpack would sort it. Thinking about it, it might be that there is no power going to the coilpack. Will check this out ASAP 
I do have Autodata, so can pull the wiring diagram off it, so will be doing that too.
