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Right.....after a casual off-hand comment on the "For sale" board about fitting an MG Metro turbo to my 1500, as these things go, the idea is now jammed in my head and I can't get rid of the thought, so I figured I would come to you all for inspiration and advice. Though I've just remember it's cramped, and that's why I dismissed it....maybe not?   Thing that concerns me intially is that my engine isn't a crossflow, with the intake and exhaust ports being on the same side. This, presumably, will kill my chances of fitting it, or am I misjudging the size of the thing? I guess I'd have to look My plan would be to use the 1500 engine AS IS (tempting fate) for the duration, until the system is proven - then on the side I can build up a strong base engine with ARP bolts, matched rods, new rings and the like.  What I would appreciate is any help on what kind of boost levels to run and how I'm going to run it. My concept is to use the MG Metro (T3) turbo, off a simple 'log' style manifold, that will run to towards the front of my engine bay, as it's quite cramped down the side (due to the turret). This should give me some space, as I can weld the flange onto the log and get the turbo in best position. The turbo presumably needs an oil supply, so can I tap my rear oil feed (between head and block) and feed it from that, draining back to the sump? For fuelling I'd use the MG Metro's HIF44 as it's designed for the application. If it worked on the metro engine, I reckon it'll be O.K. on my 1500. I reckon I may stick with the dizzy for a while, before switching to Megajolt to keep it in check a little more accurately - but I'll uprate the ignition system so the sparks can still jump the gap. I have a single carb 1300 manifold that will fit with persuasion and I can bore this out (just about) to fit the HIF too (does it blow through? I thought so ) How feasible is it to use N20 on a system like this? It's really quite an attractive proposition  Manufacturer : Triumph Type S-4 OHV 8 valves total 2 valves per cylinder Main bearings Construction Bore × stroke 73.70mm × 87.50mm 2.9 in × 3.44 in Bore/Stroke ratio 0.84 Displacement 1493 cc (91.108 cu in) Unitary capacity 373.25 cc/cylinder Compression ratio 9.00:1 Fuel system 2 SU carbs Aspiration Normal (wanna bet?)Compressor type N/A Intercooler None Catalytic Converter N Max. output 64.9 PS (64.0 bhp) (47.7 kW) @5000 rpm Max. torque 106.0 Nm (78 lbft) (10.8 kgm) Ideally I'd like to reach 150BHP (so 100bhp/litre) but I can't see that happening without some major work to the head/chambers/bottom end ;D) Triumph had low compression heads in the states, so I could lower it that way - or decompression plates? It's 9:1 standard, so what is the potential there? I've never really looked into this in any seriousness, so I'm in real clean air territory regarding where to start! I want all kinds of wierd noises from this machine! Bottom end rattles, spun bearings, valvetrain clatter, the LOT! Bent pushrod 'whangs', too     I'm not sure if there's the room Let's get boostin', baby ;D |
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 18:06:48 GMT by Lewis
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 This is my spare engine, out of the car for comparison - manifold in place. Tight....Can I run the exhaust manifold over the carbs and stick the whole affair out the bonnet? Probably have a limiter set at 5500, just for safety's sake. |
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 18:03:06 GMT by Lewis
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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I've been having exactly the same thoughts as these for the 1500 in the Herald. In fact I even started a thread about it several months ago but knew at the time that it would be a winter project. My plan was to use the existing manifolds on our engine ie single downpipe exhaust off a 1300 and the square looking single carb inlet which is from a Toledo I think. Being single in and out this would simplify the plumbing somewhat. The inlet already has the big square flange drilled for a 1 3/4 carb so the Metro carb should just bolt on (though the bore in the manifold might need opening up a bit). Ah just looking at your pics again that is exactly what you have on your spare lump! I think there;s enough room on the Herald next to the engine and could always modify.remove the engine side valances if I needed the space. Would probably have to plumb it around the steering column though. You can take a high pressure oil feed from the oil pressure sender unit that is just under the dizzy. Blownimp told me back then that I'd also need a fairly stright drain back to the sump so you'd need to weld/braze a tube into the sump to take some sort of fitting. I was also intending to stick with the original dizzy and comp ratio on the basis that it'd work to some extent and that if I blew it up I have a spare 1500! I would not be intending to squeeze every last drop out though as I think a small Metro type boost to 90-100hp would go quite well in the light Herald. I was going to do it more for the sake of having a go. I think if you really want to build a strong engine the 1500 wouldn't be the best starting point. Better would be to use a 13/60 1296 block as this has the better bottom end and isn't renowned for doing big ends like the 1500. I sold some bits a couple of weeks ago and intended to spend the money on some turbo parts but then a set of Cosmics became available  |
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 18:12:16 GMT by Seth
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Yea, that's the small bearing unit isn't it - had thought about that  Would probably end up going with that, a la a lot of the fast Spitfire guys on the CT forums, as they seem to have very good results - Josh's blown Spitfire did 20,000 miles at 130BHP before giving up didn't it. Not bad for a pretty stock engine (almost) And kudos on the Cozmics, funky wheels ;D I think I'll buy this turbo anyway, even if it is just to play with, and see if it'll go in the hole ;D |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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Of course, once I've got the Cosmics here it might mean there's a set of 5.5" Wellers available  Buy turbo and make the hole bigger if need be.  |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Hammer makes hole bigger.
Wellers. PAINTED BLACK.
Yes.
This works, I can see that!
And I have my rear louvres and rear spoiler in my ownership now..........switch to twin headlamps, overhead boost controller.....BRITISH INTERCEPTOR!
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 18:23:26 GMT by Lewis
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won't it knock out the big ends the first time you rev it up? I was under the impression the 1500's were very fragile on the bottom end as it was hardly changed from 850cc Standard 8 format, or something. All sounds nice though.
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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Yea, they're not renound for strength - at high RPMs, at least. They tend to chew through thrust bearings too as the cranks move a fair bit - but for the duration, I want to just get it fitted and working - if it does, I'll make a tough little 1300 and swap the fuelling over....
.....if it doesn't, I'll 'bay it and some other nutcase can have a go ;D
Replacements are so cheap anyway that if I catastrophically nuke it, I'll just laugh maniacally and fit another one. Before repeating it again. ;D
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 18:34:28 GMT by Lewis
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street
Posted a lot
6.2 ft/lbs of talk
Posts: 4,662
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Curve ball: What about strapping the turbo under the car at the rear, a'la the thread we had about it a few days ago? Solve all your space issues, cooling issues, and you'll be the first to do it on a Trumpet for sure! Couldn't find a link for the thread..... |
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,650
Club RR Member Number: 1
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I suppose if you have a spare motor just give it a go, I know on my 1500 (which is rebuilt n/a) it will rev happily over 5500 but it has be rebuilt to do so. I would say get an old bonnet and give it a go with bits sticking out, that way you aint fruggn that one.
If it blows it blows!
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I quite fancy a nice big turbo trumpet a la that kerrrazzzzy Viva! ;D
<starts collecting bits>
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Ditch the fan for an electric one, log fannymould going forward, turbo, intercooler, straight back to the inlet.
*n
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Do it!
The 9:1 compression ratio is fine for boosting, i would give it up to 8psi with an intercooler and itll will move pretty quick!
the turbocharger shouldent give you too much bottom end grief as the combustion pressures should be very similar, due to the denser mixture burning slower. The high rpm problems would come from the exponential rise in inertial loading from the pistons/rods.
don't put the turbocharger miles from the engine, what ever anyone has said on the internet fluid dynamics turbine theory, and the laws of physics dictate that it will perform to a sub standard level. The fact that you will also have to dry-sump the turbo also has to be considered!
You could adapt the stock exhaust manifold 180 degree bend and bring the pipe back up towards the front? The metro HIF44 uses a four bolt flange, so i don't think it will fit that inlet manifold, the metro flange will have to be welded on to you manifold.
J
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Thankyou! Ace info all ;D Penski, definitely on that one. I reckon I can make quite a bit of room in the bay just tidying up Battery in the boot, things like this - smaller alternator as well. This I can do I thought as much about the bottom end, as I'd looked through some of my books about that. I'll be keeping the revs down for a while anyway. Intercooler in the front, for the win, on the spoiler (deep one from Sprintparts ;D)... Yay! Ta BlownImp. Thanks again |
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 20:17:19 GMT by Lewis
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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The metro HIF44 uses a four bolt flange, so i don't think it will fit that inlet manifold, the metro flange will have to be welded on to you manifold. J J, the manifold on his spare engine is the same as mine. It has a four bolt flange though they were only ever fitted with 1 1/2" 2 bolt carbs - check his photo, its just lots of dirt covering the rest of the flange |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Oh yeah! Optical illusion!
Well then go for it, don't forget the fuel system needs to be suitable uprated to stop lean burning piston melting dramas!
J
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A big mofo needle sort that, methinks ;D Chap down the road supplies all sorts so can raid his cupboard for one. As long as it don't, as you say, melt pistons, I'll be happy! Wee, more excuses for gauges....  And yes, 'tis 4 stud manifold What's the best way of keeping check on the mixture whilst the engine is running? I don't want to find it going lean in the midrange whilst cruising and so on - AFR meter maybe? |
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Last Edit: Oct 9, 2006 21:21:39 GMT by Lewis
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nah a needle wont sort it, the problem is as the turbo comes on boost it starts to push the fuel back into the carb, by the time its at 8psi its pressurising your fuel tank!
You need two fuel lines, one to one return, an injection pump, and a suitable fuel pressure regulator so match the fuel pressure to the boost. The metro turbo had one that is adjustable to give 3psi + boost.
As for a/f ratio, a narrow band will make sure your not going lean but cant be used to tuning. would be perfectly suitable.
J
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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nah a needle wont sort it, the problem is as the turbo comes on boost it starts to push the fuel back into the carb, by the time its at 8psi its pressurising your fuel tank! You need two fuel lines, one to one return, an injection pump, and a suitable fuel pressure regulator so match the fuel pressure to the boost. The metro turbo had one that is adjustable to give 3psi + boost. As for a/f ratio, a narrow band will make sure your not going lean but cant be used to tuning. would be perfectly suitable. J just like to add, a narrow band guage can be had cheap from the bay, as can any old lamda. this sounds AWESOME! but i don't know why J isnt in his garage working on the imp?... |
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