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OK, here's a conundrum - what's the best material for brake pipes...
My synopsis of opinions garnered is this...
1. mild steel. Its like OE. It rusts. Its hard to form without a proper tool.
2. Copper. Its easy to form, its cheap, its easy to flare, but it apparently work hardens and snaps in service. Its illegal to use in some countries, apparently.
3. Kunifer. Easy to form and flare, more expensive than copper but doesn't work harden. Unfortunately when I've previously thought i was using Kunifer I appear to have been using copper as its not as easy to get as I thought.
4. Stainless steel. hard to form and flare. Most flare sets won't work on it. Expensive. Doesn't rust. some suggestion that it can also fracture? Although I could have got this wrong.
5. Braided hose. easy to run wherever you want, but the fittings are expensive and not OE if you have to join it to OE bits. MOT man might shake his head at this one too.
What do you use?
Why?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Seems like a reasonable summation.
I used copper on my car because I had an Automec copper pipe kit sitting around when I needed to replace them. It's attached using the OE clips at something like 10" centres and it's been fine so far with no hint of work-hardening. I wouldn't be surprised if it people did have a problem with it though.
I'd prefer to use Kunifer though - best of all worlds IMO.
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I'm considering pre-formed stainless kit from the US, not as expensive as you may think (unless there is a raping on shipping) and I'd get the right unions. Last time I made brake lines for a yank car I spent bloomin' ages trying to get imperial unions.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I generally use kunifer for everything, even though my set will flare stainless it's not really worth the extra expense and it still has a corrosion problem if you're screwing it into ally calipers.
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Try and get them from Canada cos the import duty's are cheaper.
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I've heard about the possible work hardening of copper but I have never ever heard of it actually happening.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Try and get them from Canada cos the import duty's are cheaper. I'm sure all non EU duty rates are the same now. |
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 3,062 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Brake pipes...mk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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i use cupro nickel pipe at work, not sure if thats the same as kunifer though  really don't like to use copper pipe if i can avoid it though, as the fact its easy to bend makes it a pain when trying to squeeze it past things when fitting them  if you can get a preformed stainless kit, i'd be going for that i think ;D |
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gasserjay
Part of things
Too bad the people who know it all can't do it all
Posts: 296
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I would use kunifer / copper nickel if it was me, but use a good
quality flaring tool and it will make the world of difference.
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1970 LTD country squire
1978 VW Westfalia
1988 VW Westfalia
1973 E100 econoline
1973 E200 econoline
1967 VW Sparkafer
1973 VW GT bug
1965 21 window samba
1961 splitscreen double cab
1975 bay single cab
1956 oval baja
1975 Volvo 242
1993 Volvo 945 d24tic
1985 Transit tipper
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I use cupro nickel pipe at work, not sure if thats the same as kunifer though I'm sure that Kunifer is a brand name for Cupronickel in the same way as Hoover is for Vacuum cleaners. |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,309
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Brake pipes...ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Kunifer AFAIK is Cupronickel. After dealing previously with work hardened copper lines on more than one occasion I would be tempted to search out for Kunifer. How much do you need? The Stag came with some steel brake pipe in with the spares. Depending on how much I use when I drop the rear subframe (in theory it should be none since I changed the flexis only last summer) the roll can be yours  . Most of the Stag's pipes are still steel albeit covered in grease. |
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Another option is the plastic coated steel used by some OE manufacturers. Very good rust resistance unless the plastic coating gets damaged. Personally I have never had any problem flaring or bending steel pipe. To be fair though I now use copper or Kunifer. It depends on what to hand rather than a preference to one type or another. In the past I've broken cars where I'd previously fitted copper pipes and although still sound they were starting to show signs of deteriation whereas Kunifer seems to last forever so suppose that is my final recomendation Paul h |
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Brake pipes...Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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yeah, id go kunifer (which is brand-name cupro-nickel as james says above) every single time.
my reasons for excluding the others are-
copper can and does work harden, you need to keep the distance between clips and mounts very short to prevent this- typically 6" or less. it does corrode up quite easily too, especially when you add salt, so you ideally need to keep it greased as well.
steel pipes are ok, as long as they're kept well greased to keep corrosion at bay.
i see little point in using stainless, its material properties don't lend too well to brake pipes really. it needs to have quite a short free-length between clips like copper does or it can crack through vibration, and more than anything its a real curse word to work with as its so stiff. lets face it, no pre-bend kit ever fits without a bit of tweaking, and i dread to think about having to do that on a stainess set.
as paul says above, plastic coated steel in OE applications tends to last well, but if youre shaping and flaring it yourself you are invariably going to mark/damage the coating, making it no better than mild steel.
i use kunifer as its soft enough to shape by hand or with a ring spanner but hard enough not to fold in on itself when doing tight/fiddly curves like copper or steel can, doesnt really need any corrosion protection (i give the unions a squirt of coppergrease to prevent em seizing, but thats more down to the steel unions than the kunifer pipe), it doesnt work harden, and doesnt need loads of extra clips adding to hold it down.
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cheers guys. I can get pre-bent "OE" kits as well, I presumed this to be regular mild steel.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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could you have the preformed steel pipes powder coated?
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1992 190E 2.0 - first car, currently being driven by the wife.
1989 500SEC
1968 W115 4.2 V8
2000 CL500
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Rally Design sell Kunifer by the metre or try a truck spares place?
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Copper - cheap (6 quid for metres and metres), easy to bend and flare (using 10 flaring tool and a jar), lasts for years.
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copper,,,and the reason why is simple,,,its the best material to use as its malleable,,,light,,,cheap and easy to get a good flare seal,,,it wont work harden and split like stainless and plastic coated mild steel will.
braided stainless is fine for flexi's but will weigh alot more than copper if your planning to do the whole car with it,,,not to mention the price!
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if at first you don't succeed...use a gas axe!
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CIH
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,466
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Anybody got any links for premeade lines ? I did copper lines for my Silvia but they're pretty damn ugly, if functional.
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spray them with plasticote whatever colour you want alot cheaper than using expensive materials,,,just make sure you don't get any paint internally
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if at first you don't succeed...use a gas axe!
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[*]
. Most of the Stag's pipes are still steel albeit covered in grease.
