andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
Jan 27, 2013 18:38:33 GMT
|
Well after a few longish drives (hour or so), 3 main issues arise. 2 connected to the conversion, 1 isn't. The level of bump steer is too high, the car feels too nervous at faster speeds. I have 3 ideas on ways to reduce this, I’ll try the simplest first. The exhaust bangs on the rear subframe, to be more accurate, inside the rear subframe, The pipe passes through the rear subframe, normally there's loads of space between the pipe and the hole in the subframe. This picture (not my car) shows how. But now I've got a 2.25 inch system, instead of the original 1.25 inch peashooter, that space has disappeared. Hopefully a flexible section installed just before the pipe enters the subframe will allow the engine to move without the the section being affected. And the last? Re-fit the petrol tank vent hose. You wouldn't want to smoke in the car at the moment! I think the fumes are made worse by the recirculating fuel going back into the tank, this enters the tank very near the vent outlet and I guess the splashing fuel as it's pumped in will generate more fumes. Still enjoying the car and the girl fiend had her first drive today, her verdict? It's got a nice gear change and she likes the popping and banging of the exhaust on the over run!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2013 18:54:17 GMT
|
"Girl fiend" i got to get me one of those
|
|
Ginetta G15 BMW K1100 conversion Sold Mk1 Mx5 on ITB'S Sold TVR Chimaera 400 supercharged MR2 Red Roadster 2ZZ Bee*R 324 Skyline 95 Cherokee Jeep
|
|
|
|
Jan 27, 2013 19:45:09 GMT
|
Have you got the exhaust clamp that mounts to the subframe by the hole fitted? You've got no chance without that. Some chance with it. I think Chris Witor does bigger ones...... People have been known to enlarge the hole too - which is quite involved. You'll probably find that at least half the movement causing the clonking is coming from the subframe itself!
Steering. Not completely amazed given that you had to move the rack, but before going mad, have you checked the tracking is still correct and camber/caster fairly even side to side? Also tyre pressures - which may need to be different now the weight has changed?
I hear you on the tank breather! However, mine carried on stinking even after I fixed the breathers. This turned out to be the wibblepoo (but not cheap) fuel hose that turns out to be semi-permeable to petrol. You don't get any wet leaks, but the hose stinks of fuel. Wants to be R9 these days to cope with the ethanol content. Quite tricky to find the bigger stuff (3/8" or 10mm) in R9 - I'm still looking.
Nick
|
|
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
Jan 29, 2013 17:53:51 GMT
|
Started trying to resolve the 3 main faults mentioned above. The petrol fumes leaking into the cabin was fairly easy, just fit a tank breather pipe. I probably forgot to re-fit the original breather when I fitted the PI tank for the Megasquirt conversion about 3 years ago! No wonder the girlfiend used to complain of petrol fumes, however it's got worse with this conversion. I haven't used a surge tank with the BMW fuel system, so all the excess fuel from the fuel rail splashes into the tank, creating more fumes then with the Megasquirt system. The MS did have a surge tank, which was filled by a mechanical pump and also the excess from the fuel rail, so perhaps less fuel was returned to the tank? Had a play with the steering, reducing the tyre pressures by 4 psi has reduced both the “squirmy” feel to the steering and also the bump steer. But although much improved, the car still has a squirmy and unstable feel to it in a straight line, so I'll be trying to reduce the steering arm angle by converting to Rose joints. This is what it looks like at the moment. The rose joint will enable the rack to attach to the bottom of the steering arm rather then sit on top of the arm, as it does now with the track rod end. Hopefully, bringing the rack end parallel (ish) with the bottom arm will reduce the bump steer even more and help the car feel more “planted” in a straight line. I'm also unhappy with the way the track rod end looks, can't be anything wrong with the way the boot doesn't sit on top of the arm, because the car wouldn't have passed the MOT if there was a problem. But I don't like it and the rose joint will remove this source of irritation! I also feel that the car could do with a degree or two of negative camber, it's much lighter in weight at the front now and 1 or 2 degrees won't make the steering overly heavy. But adding Neg Camber is an involved and/or expensive job and one till that won't be really considered till I see how the reduction in steering rack angle affects the car. I've decided to insert a flexible link between the main section of the exhaust pipe and the part that runs through the rear cross member, I'll use one of those flexible braided pipes that are used by manufacturers to isolate catalytic converters. This will allow the engine to move without affecting the rear section, which I'll lock in place in the crossmember, which is where it's rattling. The flexible used on the old Honda I owned lasted some 15 years, so it seems like they can be quite durable. Pleased that there's been almost as much driving as spannering over the last few days, but the new (to me!) starter motor is still playing up though. In about 20 starts, it's jammed twice, the first time I cleared the jam using the traditional method, 4th gear and rock the car, which took me back to my youth and a Ford Classic 315 saloon I owned! The second, it cleared itself on the next flick of the key......so, who knows!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 29, 2013 19:57:38 GMT
|
Normally low 2000s suffer an excess of negative camber....... and the problem is getting it reasonable once you've run out of shims to remove, so I think that adding a few shims ought to sort that?
I see what you mean about the steering arm angle - probably the main issue. However, when you converted from PAS to manual rack, did you also change the arms that bolt to the vertical link? They are different and have undesirable effects if wrong combinations are used. Can probably swap you pair if you need them as I could do with a pair of PAS ones.
Also - tracking. Massive effect and toe-out will make the car feel as described. My local alignment place got my PI hopelessly wrong - did better with odd bits of string and tape measure!
Cheers
Nick
|
|
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
|
|
richrolls
Part of things
Posts: 318
Club RR Member Number: 38
|
1969 Triumph 2000 MK1richrolls
@richrolls
Club Retro Rides Member 38
|
Jan 29, 2013 20:46:58 GMT
|
Bookmarked. Just read this from the first page. A great write up and build. Having a BMW fetish as I do, I always think what would be nice with BMW bits in it, This is really nice. Keep the updates coming.
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
Jan 29, 2013 20:56:00 GMT
|
The MOT man did the tracking when it was in for a test, I can push it quite easily and it runs straight.
It does have PAS steering arms, they sit lower then the manual arms (but not by much!), the rack end angle would be worse (again, not by much) with manual ones! With rose joints I can either put the joint on top or on the bottom of the steering arm and use a washer or 2 fine tune it.
Don't know anything about shims, nothing fell out when I took the struts apart, off to have a look in the manual!
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
Jan 30, 2013 16:01:00 GMT
|
Understand about the shims now and I've checked the camber, 4 degrees negative on both sides without shims.
So just about right.
Nice to know I can up the camber if I feel the need. And I guess the person who fitted the MK2 running gear and the lowered springs, knew what they were doing!
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
Jan 31, 2013 19:30:28 GMT
|
Normally, I only really post when I've something to tell you about the car, perhaps work I've done, what went right, the wrong bits and my mistakes. However, this isn't like that (well almost!). Ordered the rose joints I need to replace the track rod ends, these will mount on the the underside of the the steering arms, giving a much straighter angle to the steering rack and (hopefully) reducing the bump steer. The size I need wasn't available in the spec I want so, at least in a female joint, so 2 male joints were ordered, along with a pair of turnbuckles, 4 high angle washers and rubber boots. First the company who I placed the order with checked via email, that the order was correct, normally a rose joint is fitted to each end of a turnbuckle, I'd ordered just LH threaded joints, so they checked this was right. Glad they did, because I wasn't sure myself! Then 2 days later, after the joints were in the post, I remembered that I hadn't ordered LH thread lock nuts. (you didn't expect even this to go smoothly, did you?) So I phoned to order and was told, "no charge", it wasn't worth them charging me, because they'd only see pennies after the banking fees were deducted. I know that many companies have a minimum charge, so this pleased me and if in the ethos of Retro Rides, "Can't say anything nice, say nothing", here's the name of the company. www.mcgillmotorsports.co.uk/Good people to do business with, not only great and friendly service, but almost half the price of my usual supplier. Recommended.
|
|
|
|
Smiler
Posted a lot
I no longer own anything FWD! Or with less than 6 cylinders, or 2.5ltrs! :)
Posts: 2,492
|
|
Jan 31, 2013 22:14:25 GMT
|
Still watching with keen interest. Will be good to see how the steering issue pans out.
|
|
www.Auto-tat.co.uk'96 Range Rover P38 DSE (daily driver) '71 Reliant Scimitar SE5 GTE 3.0ltr Jag V6 Conversion '79 Reliant Scimitar SE6A 3.0ltr 24valve Omega Conversion '85 Escort Cabrio 2.0 Zetec - Sold '91 BMW 525i - Sold '82 Cortina 2.9i Ghia Cosworth - Sold '72 VW Campervan - Sold '65 LandRover 88" - Sold
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 31, 2013 22:24:52 GMT
|
Hi Andy, I know this post may be a little late but is it not possible to swap the steering arms from side to side and fit them upside down so you can fit the track rod ends in from the bottom? Probably talking out of my a*se, but might be worth a look
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
Jan 31, 2013 23:44:10 GMT
|
Hi Andy, I know this post may be a little late but is it not possible to swap the steering arms from side to side and fit them upside down so you can fit the track rod ends in from the bottom? Probably talking out of my a*se, but might be worth a look No, you're not talking out of your a*se, on some cars this is possible, as I found when I re-built the Sprites front suspension! Interesting handling to say the least for a moment on the Sprite. But not on the Triumph, the arms sit at a different angle, but the bolt hole is still in the same plane, relative to the steering rack. I did try!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well it was worth a try anyway. I have been watching with interest as I have a 2000 MK1 in Valencia blue also. I will be trying out a megasquirted 2.5 Triumph motor in mine and if that is not as good as I hope then at least I know that a 2.5 BMW motor will fit. Thanks for pioneering the build as it answers a lot of questions I had about the conversion. I hope to see it at one of the Triumph shows this year, which shows are you intending to appear at?
Many thanks Spider.
|
|
Last Edit: Feb 3, 2013 18:20:16 GMT by spider62
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
|
Spider
Hope to be at Stoneleigh (March 3rd) and the 2000/2500 Register Nationals, plus the RR Gathering. Maybe Star 90 and a few local shows, if you're in Kent, one I can recommend is Canterbury Cathedral, it's organized via Canterbury Triumphs and happens in the cathedral gardens, a stunning venue. The other highly recommended show is the end of summer show at Duxford.
I hope to be at both of these.
I have experience of MS, though nowhere as much as Nick and others, but feel free to ask. If I don't know (and I probably won't!), I'm sure Nick will know.
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
|
And don't forget, it's the 50th anniversary of the introduction of the MK1 this year.
I know the 2000/2500 Register hopes to have as many MK1's (as possible) together at the Nats for a photo shoot.
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
|
Not thread bumping, but bump-steering. Sorry, best pun I could come up with, so have a picture of modified (one in it's boot, one without) steering joints to make up for it. That's better, the rack arms are almost parallel with the bottom suspension arms and the steering is now as it should be. Compare these pictures with the one above. No more feeling like the car might dart off into the countryside at any moment and it runs straight without a hand on the wheel. Which will give a much more relaxed driver (me)! A 6mm spacer was added to the hub to make sure the rim isn't rubbing on the rose joint. But as ever, a minor problem. The rack has revealed some play in the straight ahead position, not a lot, or the MOT man would've mentioned it. But enough to make the car feel slightly “lazy” as it turns in to a corner. Fit another rack is what you're thinking now, isn't it? The same thought occurred to me and I acquired a NOS Triumph Spitfire rack, this is the same as a 2000 rack, but with higher gearing and less turns lock to lock. But, when I went to fit it, it appears that the rack the mounts are built around is a different shape and the NOS Spitfire rack won't fit! Not sure what I'll be doing with this one, changing the rack mounts or having the cars rack rebuilt. Either way, it won't be till after the Stoneleigh show. Not sure if you've noticed, but I'm slowly running out of things to talk about! And when I had a day off with nothing to do on the car I was very bored! Hi, my names Andy and I'm an addict.........
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
|
Think I'll cut the bump stops down a bit!
That'll give me something to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Superb project this. Just a thought, but if the two racks are the same bar the mounting points, could you not strip the new Spitfire rack down and utilise its high ratio rack and pinion components and rebuild them into the 2000 casing?
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
|
|
|
Just a thought, but if the two racks are the same bar the mounting points, could you not strip the new Spitfire rack down and utilise its high ratio rack and pinion components and rebuild them into the 2000 casing? Yes, I probably can. But I think it'll be easier to alter the rack mount, it's a "chop and weld" on the corner of the mount. I don't have the tools or knowledge to rebuild the rack at home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Great car - always liked these Triumphs (can never make my mind up whether I prefer the Mk1 or Mk2 though*) & have been following your conversion with much interest :-)
*Mk1 currently, due to this thread!
|
|
|
|
|