1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP (higher axle stands)

Well. No visit to the barn since Saturday (as spent the whole weekend with my very understanding girlfriend) but have got a couple of pics from Saturday to post.

Nothing of great import - but interesting to me. I noticed one of the shocks has different collets from the others and when you add that to the issue of the missing collar at the top eye of one of them and the series 1 exhaust downpipes its gets you thinking that the cars may not have been put together as carefully as you'd imagine. The odd shock and older downpipes aren't safety issues but it does give the impression there might have been a bit of parts bin rummaging going on.

When I was compressing the springs it got me wondering how much damage they might do should the collets slip off the rather small retaining circlip so I measured a fully relaxed spring against one in situ and there is only about one coils worth of compression. I'm not physicist but I'm thinking they are probably not under extreme load.


old springs fitted to new shocks. 3 shocks have the flat collets on RHS of this pic



springs in-situ don't seem to be under a lot of compression

Ok. Its been a week since my last post but I've made some progress in a couple of small areas which strangely I'm fine with. This is the first time I remember that I've felt relaxed about the project. I feel like I've been racing against time and now I can finish it off at a jog

Apologies to anyone who is fed up seeing IRS mounts but there are some more picture and no solution but I still feel I've made progress: In the last post I said I'd need to buy 4 more which I could do for about £10 each plus P&P but I saw a single one for sale on Ebay with the later part no. CAC3067 and I thought I'd get that and see if it fitted or not instead of buying 4 more wrong uns.

It turns out to be exactly like the 4 newer ones I have and doesn't match my originals.

Checking the parts lists I see that the chassis leg part no's (12135 & 12136) didn't change from series 1 to series 3. This leaves the cage as the only other component in the equation that could necessitate different positions for the holes on the brackets old and new. The parts list shows the cage part no changed from C.24994 to C.41996 then to CAC2177. I assumed this would've been due to minor differences in the captive nuts for the exhaust hangers or something but it is possible that the holes for the IRS mounts were in slightly different places needed different mounts. Seems a bit unlikely but at the moment it's the only logical conclusion. None of the listings I've seen make mention of old & new mounts either.

I doubt 4 old type mounts C.29344 will surface any time soon so it looks like I'm going to have to adapt the ones I have. I'm not keen on just making the holes larger and don't want to drill the cage so it may need to be 16 new ears welded on then drilled to suit

The brackets seem to be the same thickness as some 3mm plate I bought recently so it seems the best course of action.


solitary mount bought on Ebay for £5 clearly shows late part no.


made some time in the 80s



bolted up against an original we see a repeat of the issue encountered with the other 4 new ones I have


On a more positive note but also containing old/new part no. anomalies I got 2 new rear brake discs. There are so many of these for sale at varying prices it's hard to know which ones to buy and I'd noticed that some have 2 large holes in them and some don't. Per the parts lists the early ones C.26779 had the holes and later ones C.46113 didn't. The rusty originals on my car are the later type.

Anyway I saw a new pair listed for £20 on Ebay and took the plunge despite them being being the type with the two weird holes in them. On receipt I found they have the exact same casting numbers on them so I'm pretty sure they are interchangeable.


original discs have no holes other than bolt holes




casting no. on old discs C20326/C



cheap new shop-soiled discs are older type



but have same number cast into them



The next issue was with the lower rear quarter panels. A few posts back I was messing about with lots of new screws etc fitting the passenger side one and was a bit surprised to find the drivers one didn't want to go on at all. This week I spent a bit of time tweaking it and got out the original to check for differences etc. Its fitting pretty well now but the original perhaps fits slightly better and I'm toying with the idea of cutting the new one to use the front flange to repair the original. A job I said I'd do once the car was on the road - not now.

More importantly this led to a repair I'd been putting of for ages due to huge 'issues' and, typically, it was done in about an hour and it's pretty much spot on. The issue was that when I repaired the edge of the wing then offered the bumper bar bracket up to weld back on to it there seemed to be a huge gap. With a little clamping and hammering this disappeared along with some other fit problems. Anyway it is done now and I left the barn about midnight on Friday well chuffed


newer panel has slots at 2 rear fixing points where original has holes. newer one also has additional wiring(?) hole up top



original panel (bottom) a bit flatter here and seems more generously proportioned



rear wing bracket separated from wing some time ago for blasting/repair/priming being offered up to check alignment



seems to have grown whilst it was off car



some of the spot weld holes now slightly out of alignment too



but pressed on and plug-welded up nicely



then a little encouragement with a clamp


and finally back section welded then ground down at top face for tank cover-panel to sit flush on

Keep on keeping on.

Apologies before I start but I can almost hear the groans. Yes, more IRS-mount ramblings

I've spent so much time fiddling with these things and bolting them together (5 tonight - nearly forming a ring) that I'm starting to think I'm to blame and there is no problem with the brackets but I began knocking up a crude dummy chassis leg in wood and despite only getting it half finished it seems to show there is a problem.

One thing I did notice the other night, and examined further today, was the pointed end of the brackets:

As I was jacking the IRS up and down a few nights ago I noticed the forward edge of the rear mount looked like a little arrow guiding you into position. The rear one is not as pronounced but is still like a point and I found today that if you draw a line from
each point through the middle of the bolt hole they form a right angle. There must be a reason for this and it could help me in making new holes, I'm sure.



wooden copy on inner chassis leg area. all bolts in place but bottom front one in from other side



fitted to first bracket in-situ on IRS



holes out of line at other bracket re-enforces that error present on brackets

I'll be back on it on Thursday as having a night off tomorrow to watch Celtic v Benfica

With the IRS mounts I think you may be trying too hard to get something millimetre perfect that never will be. The rubber takes up any slight variances with the radius arms being the dimension that makes sure the whole thing stays where its supposed to be.

The IRS mounts top and bottom brackets move a lot in relation to each other when the cage weight is hung on them, and also when in compression if the weight of the car is on the suspension. They also twist quite a bit on a quick take off (on a V12 you can wind them up hard enough to tear them).

Bolt the mounts to the cage, then getting a friend to help move it about bolt it up to the car. The rubber mounts will be under slight tension, but not enough to worry about. Measure from the radius arm mount to the mount on the wishbone. Any variance here is bad as it will cause a thrust angle.

Bear in mind, Jaguar/Daimler built the XJ from hundreds of small panels, and if you look hard enough you will find factory bodges to make things fit... the S2 being the worst of the bunch, with the Coupe taking the honours.

Thats why things like the doors are shimmed in all three dimensions, and the striker plates have about a half inch of adjustment. Front wings are a swine to line up again even if you've just taken them off the car and put them back.

Remember the story about coachbuilder that asked Jaguar for one that was the same size on both sides? Its not a myth.

Stay positive, it will all come together... but maybe not to the tolerances you want just yet.

Regards,

Rich


(ps. Rear brake disc difference - holes vs none? Its due to which diff you have, and how the brake caliper bolts on to it. The holes are for access to the caliper bolts.)

Mount them on the cage, but loosely. It should give you enough adjustment to play with. Try to do one bolt in each mount to get it on the car (all the outers) then jacking it carefully should line the others up.

Last one I did was on an XJS a while back, and I'm sure there were shims between the IRS mounts and chassis too.

Ive always burned them out in the past, didnt know about the dangers!

jimspolicev8sd1 I don't know the facts on the matter but have definitely read something about it. Can't remember if the burnt rubber had to get into a cut or something but I've always steered away from doing it just in case and as optimusprime says once you've done a few manually it gets easier.

I first tried it years ago with the swing arm bushes on an old motorcycle (Yamaha AS3). The manual would say remove and replace with some suitably sized sockets. This is always a bit hit and miss because the socket needs to be the exact same size as the outer casing of the bush on the 'push' side and you need one just a little bigger on the other side for it to be pushed into, but not bigger than the diameter of the eye you are pushing it out of. I've never got it to work for me so hacksawing it is.

One time I took a swingarm (Yamaha CS3) to a local engineer to get them out with a press and he bent the arms with the pressure, and still couldn't get them out

As for a 2nd pair of eyes on the IRS mounts.... no-one I know would be interested

I'll get there in the end.......surely!

Well. As I said, i took Tuesday off the project to watch Scotland get beat but got back on it last night and tonight.

Last night I got the other wishbone and bracket stripped and degreased and and into the DeoxC bath along with the radius arm which has been in since Monday.

Tonight the radius arm and cast bracket were ready for some epoxy mastic after the usual rinsing with water, drying with hot air gun then a quick wire brushing (to get any powdery residue off).

The wishbone and another little bit will need another day or so in the bath then I get get back to putting the enamel paint on all the IRS bits.


radius arm and wishbone bracket after being in DeoxC bath then rinsed and dried. wishbone in epoxy-mastic at rear



DeoxC does great job removing rust but nothing can really get this stuff out seams. not viable to split the radius arm