foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Apr 22, 2021 22:20:10 GMT
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Didn't get anything done on the VDP today but did a lot of tidying/cleaning in the barn and associated lock-ups - very important for mojo - and have a few pics of the liner I used honing-tool on yesterday. I'm a bit surprised how bad this one is. I don't think I'll be able to use it but will be interesting to see how big it gets when (if?) the honing can clear all the pitting. Not the end of the world really as it only cost about £40 and was a B liner rather than an A but I do know my original liners aren't corroded like this so will just need to keep looking for one more decent one  top after a little bit of honing  bottom another view of from top |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Been making a little progress.... Just cleaning the block and transmission really. I've been using brake cleaner on the block and small brass brushes in my 'Dremel'. It's not that important really what the finish is but I do want to make sure there is no debris in the water-jacket so if I can see it all looking allot colour I'll be satisfied with that  |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Ok so I've been faffing about cleaning the block, not sure what to do about 1 liner and still trying to get old piston rings out but when this is all sorted am going to need something to hold the engine while I rebuild it. As you may remember I wheeled the lump out on the front subframe and I'll be putting it back in like this but I need to have the bottom end done before I can put it back on subframe. The engine obv weighs quite a bit. Can't remember how much right now but 600kg sounds familiar and I think that's sans transmission. The transmission doesn't actually weigh that much. I can pick it up. Anyway I have a cheapo engine stand rated to 350kg and am sure this will be enough to get the bottom end done. I last used this on a Polo engine about 25 years ago but dug it out of a lock-up today and nothing is missing. I remember with the Polo engine that the arms were too big for it so I had to dispense with 2 of them and just use bolts thru the main plate or something. Not going to have that problem with the V12 but first thing that bothered me is you need to use the relatively small threaded holes in the block and the tubes on the arms (of the stand) would take much bigger bolts so it seems a bit out of sorts. The bolts that hold the arms to the plate are beefier. It's like 12mm v 9mm. So I spent quite a bit time faffing about with all sort of odd bolts and washers and now know where I am. I'm going to order some suitable fasteners and return the guinea-pig ones to their friends. The UNC ones I used (from the Jag) were too short to be relied on and I'd like all the arm-to-plate ones to be the same as I had all sorts from 4.8 tensile strength to Mondeo ball-joint pinch-bolts in there. I was tempted to try it out on the spare block today but will wait till my fasteners are sorted plus I gave it all a coat of paint: blue Hammerite smooth for the original paper-thin red & silver Hammerite smooth for the black. To overcome the thin-bolt-in-wide-tube issue I cut spacers from the now-redundant long-holesaw contraption I made to try and get the studs out. Still can't believe the lengths I went to with all that  .  cheapo 350kg stand last used 25+ years ago  arms were too long for Polo engine and for some reason tubes were trimmed down  tappings in block dictate can only use 3/8" bolts to secure stand to block but tubes on arms could take much larger fasteners  mocked-up with assorted fasteners looks pretty central |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,879
Club RR Member Number: 39
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To rotate evenly on the stand it is the mass that needs to be be centred - If you line it up on the crankshaft centre it will be a PITA to move.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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where would the centre be?
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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I think you have mounted it in the worst possible manner for a V12 Jag block, mainly because as soon as you start to add parts to the block it will go ass over tit and it stops you having ascess to the fly wheel end of the engine.
To mount it more prcticaly it should be mounted with the length of the block across the engine stand so you can turn it end over end and that the mass is close to the rear of the stand that way it will stay balanced there are plenty of mounting points along the block to do this.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,879
Club RR Member Number: 39
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May 10, 2021 12:46:53 GMT
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where would the centre be? Depends on what you intend to be adding. If you are going all the way up to the cam boxes then I expect you will be at the mean piston height from the crank centre. |
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nze12
Part of things
Posts: 193
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May 10, 2021 18:39:00 GMT
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Found this some time ago - hopefully going down the same path myself sometime in the future... V12 Engine Stand |
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1986 BMW E30 refreshed to original spec
1973 BMW E12 520 converting to Motorsport 530
1982 XJS V12 converting to 5 speed manual
Many landscaping projects overriding above!
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum!
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May 10, 2021 19:54:59 GMT
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That engine stand was mentioned a few pages back and in an ideal worl with no monetery restriction that would work especialy if you were building more than one engine.
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nze12
Part of things
Posts: 193
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May 10, 2021 20:10:07 GMT
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That engine stand was mentioned a few pages back and in an ideal worl with no monetery restriction that would work especialy if you were building more than one engine. For the life of me I couldn't remember where I saw it first!  |
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1986 BMW E30 refreshed to original spec
1973 BMW E12 520 converting to Motorsport 530
1982 XJS V12 converting to 5 speed manual
Many landscaping projects overriding above!
Cogito cogito ergo cogito sum!
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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May 10, 2021 21:08:54 GMT
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where would the centre be? Depends on what you intend to be adding. If you are going all the way up to the cam boxes then I expect you will be at the mean piston height from the crank centre. sorry. I assumed you'd read my post. I am only doing the bottom end on the stand |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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May 10, 2021 21:10:05 GMT
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Found this some time ago - hopefully going down the same path myself sometime in the future... V12 Engine StandI posted a link to this a few months back I think. They have 2 welded together? |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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May 10, 2021 21:12:45 GMT
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I think you have mounted it in the worst possible manner for a V12 Jag block, mainly because as soon as you start to add parts to the block it will go ass over tit and it stops you having ascess to the fly wheel end of the engine. To mount it more prcticaly it should be mounted with the length of the block across the engine stand so you can turn it end over end and that the mass is close to the rear of the stand that way it will stay balanced there are plenty of mounting points along the block to do this. there are various mounting points but you'd need to fabricate something to attach it to the plate that comes with the stand. Why would I need access to the flywheel end? Can turn the crank from the timing-gear end to install the pistons etc |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,879
Club RR Member Number: 39
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May 10, 2021 21:20:25 GMT
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Depends on what you intend to be adding. If you are going all the way up to the cam boxes then I expect you will be at the mean piston height from the crank centre. sorry. I assumed you'd read my post. I am only doing the bottom end on the stand Then 3" or so above the crank centre line |
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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May 12, 2021 22:48:16 GMT
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Well that's the block now on the stand. I just posted a bunch of pics and lots of words but lost them as site was down for maintenance or something. cba writing it all again tonight so will just leave a pic for time being  |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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May 14, 2021 12:17:14 GMT
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Thought this may be of interest:
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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May 14, 2021 13:27:31 GMT
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Thought this may be of interest: Just watched that this morning. Great watch and am thinking '10K rebuild? am budgeting for well under 1K  ' Tbh I think Harry would have preferred that. He just wanted rope-seal replaced Actually am glad I watched it as Ii realised I won't be able to size the seal with the block on stand as the tool needs to approach the block exactly which the stand is. They seem to have there's mounted quite like mine. I think I'll do the seal-sizing on the deck then put it back on stand |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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May 14, 2021 13:46:27 GMT
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Anyway back to my progress and a more complete report on the stand.... So yeah the plan was to do a dummy-run on the spare block, armed with my new fasteners. I fixed the plate & arms to my block with the better fasteners and little tubes in the arms. It looked well secure. I then went to fetch the spare from the other end of the barn and manoeuvre it back 40' past lots of projects when I realised I could actually pick it up by hand! Go it over to the business-end and quickly realised it was a no-go as it's damaged in exactly the places the arms mount to. Well 2 of them anyway. THE WHOLE REASON I DIDN'T GIVE-UP ON THE ORIGINAL BLOCK YEARS AGO AND TRANSFER MY BITS TO THE SPARE So it was basically a case of lifting the proper block c/w plate into the hole on the stand. My lock is obv a bit heavier as it has all the bearing-caps in it and the plate itself but got it up no probs. It's also turning fine but that's without the crank and pistons/liners/conrods in it. I'd say the crank weighs a little more than the block and from memory the pistons and liners weigh about 50kg (I posted the HE ones to someone in 2 wooden boxes about 25kg each) I might get away with only having to turn it 3 times: - upside down to install crank
- right way up to install liners/pistons
- upside down to install big-end caps, sump etc
 plate and arms firmly fixed to block with £11+ worth of new hardware  dummy-run with HE block is a non-starter as damaged where arms locate upright upside downon its side bit of cleaning needed here |
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Last Edit: May 14, 2021 13:47:12 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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May 14, 2021 22:51:34 GMT
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With my MK2 engine I used a piece of wood at the other end of the crank to take the load off the stand, if you wanted to turn it over could you make some kind of tripod out of wood to hold the other end of the crank so the load isn't all on one end?
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Well nearly a month has passed since the block was put on the stand and not a huge amount of progress worth posting about but today started something new  Before I get to that I have to say I've been working on the piston assys for hours. Initially was just trying to get all the old rings out and resorted to using the hotplate to expand them a bit. This lead to disconnecting all the conrods. I wanted to do this anyway as, when cold, several of them were too tight to move. I was a bit concerned about how to press the gudgeon-pins out but with the heat they came out fine. Have got loads of rings out too but still got loads to do. They are totally stuck. Even when you get a little bounce in them it can be hours trying to get the last say 40% out but I will get there in the end. I'm numbering everything with paint as they come apart and today got all the liners together to do similar. They were scratched on the outside with their number and orientation and have been sitting in my hallway since the end of last year. No back at the barn/container I'm finding some of the marks to feint to see and having to use almost forensic analysis to work out what one is what. I've also bought a NOS expansion-tank (from a chap on a Facebook group). It's not the exact right part-number but from what I can see only needs one pipe added to make it same as mine. It was about 1/3 of the price of a new one. I just discovered that SNG Barratt have the one I've been looking for for years but then the offer of the other one came up. Should be here soon and I can see what my options are. Also having problems finding full engine-set of rings. I had some in my Ebay Watch List (£135) but they are sold-out now. Anyway. To the engine-bay... as the suspension and engine/box are out it makes sense to re-vamp it. I'm not getting involved in blasting it so decided to try Bilt Hamber Deox Gel. It's about £50 for 5L and would be a miracle if it actually works but I'll give it a go. The engine bay & chassis legs are actually very sound, so no welding needed, but there is rust speckling and would be nice if I could get rid of it.  Deox Gel. will it work?  heatshield not removed but I believe bulkhead is totally solid  transmission tunnel is good as new  N/S chassis-leg and inner-wing in good condition  rear of N/S inner-wing fine apart from my old repair to strut area  rear of O/S inner-wing has most rust but still not too bad |
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP
1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up
1984 VW Polo breadvan
1970s Yamaha Twins (4)
1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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