foxy99
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Posts: 1,454
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Jan 16, 2021 11:33:36 GMT
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bloody well done foxy.i wonder if a 2mm drill eased down the ally side to the threaded point would let lube in there ? I've been considering that for years, like a rescue-shaft. nut-splitter in reverse What has stopped me tho is the length of (thin) drill you'd need to go down past the remaining stud plus get a good couple of inches into the casting - without snapping I think for the short one its definitely worth a go tho. If that doesn't move first time I think drilling in around it will be worth a try
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Last Edit: Jul 28, 2021 23:31:33 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Jan 16, 2021 11:35:11 GMT
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Great result, after 3 years you are going to want to mount them as a trophy! Idea of drilling a small hole down the side of the broken one sounds a good idea, put the new one in with some sealer and all will be fine. I was actually thinking about that. I've got all the mullered studs removed so far. Would make a good art-piece if I welded them together or something
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Jan 16, 2021 11:37:37 GMT
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Congratulations on your successes so far. Your dedication and patience are impressive, as is your heat solution. Smart. Allen Millyard uses his gas barbecue to warm his castings, but I guess you’d need a huge barbecue for a V12 block! Yip. It was definitely watching Allen's videos that spurred me on. The BBQ one where he removed his liners was the final-straw lol. Funnily enough he got the block to 120C and they dropped out. I got my block to perhaps 110C last night and that's when things started happening
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Jan 16, 2021 11:41:59 GMT
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Are you using acetone with your atf? Makes a huge difference it’s penetrating ability. Also use an actual penetrating oil as WD40 isn’t a penetrating oil. I find Plus Gas the best penetrating oil but GT85, even Tool Stations own will be better than WD40 for this job. Nick Edit: Also meant to comment on stainless studs. This is a real can of worms as stainless and aluminium actually have the potential for worse corrosion than plain steel in a hot, wet environment. Add in the fact that it would take a pretty fancy stainless to match the tensile strength of the steel studs and I really think it’s best avoided. Far better to use OE studs with a decent anti seize (not copper based) and make sure you use good quality coolant, preferably mixed with DI water. I have tried the acetone/ATF mix (way back at the start) and tbh I don't think it made a difference, as nothing is getting to the bottom anyway. I never usually use WD40 but just bought some recently, for another purpose, and am simply using it as it's there. Prior to this have used various dedicated penetrating oils. Only ones I've not tried are the USA ones (eg Kroil, Marvel, PB Blaster) Will def be using OEM steel studs and looking after the coolant etc. I'm pretty sure they'll never be out again but will use anti-seize also
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Jan 16, 2021 12:36:52 GMT
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Well, much to my surprise, I got 2 of the nightmare studs out I'd had another useless day after 4 or 5 hours sleep and kept putting off going to the barn to wrestle with the problem but for some reason about 8.30pm I mustered up the mojo to get my butt out the door. Putting on the work clothes always helps as you fell odd sitting back down in them lol. Anyway I set the box up and left it well alone while I tidied up and continued searching for 2 items that I cannot find anywhere!! (brake-bleed tube for the gaffer's long-running XJR1300 saga and hinge-cutter for kitchen cabinet as Old Mary has pulled one of her doors clean orf). Needless to say I found neither but by that time the box was smoking away. I had no intentions of doing the routine twice so I unplugged it and stuck the probe in and it went up to at least 120C. Whipped the box off and left the probe on the casting while I got busy and the casting was up to 110C Unfortunately I have no pics of this as my camera was saying 'battery empty' but this may be due to the cold. Long story short I got both the LH and RH studs facing each other out. These would be the ones nearest bulkhead. The other 2 on the RH bank moved a little but as I was determined to get at least one out completely I kept working on the ones that moved the most. Good news was the one that didn't move at all last night (RH middle) moved a good bit. I found that when there were about 5 or 6 revolutions left to go I could put the super-long breaker-bar to the side and take them out with the T-bar. Was unbelievable to see them come out after all this time. Tomorrow I'll do the same: let the box get up to a good temp then work on the last 2 on RH bank. Am sure they'll yield. Then I can turn to the short one on LHS. Will be a real bummer if that snaps. Talk about falling at last hurdle So getting the 2 freed studs home for analysis there was almost no corrosion on them. A little white powder on the threads of the RH one and nothing on the LH one (it picked up some gunk on way out). My camera also decided to start working after I'd got them out and you can see from the pics how dry the holes are inside which means none of the ATF or WD40 was getting anywhere near the interface. When the first stud came out the thick collar on it (just above thread) looked like it was polished from rotating in the bore. I'll need to measure now that they're out but I reckon the studs are buried 2" into the casting 2 studs freed! problem-zone may be the collar above thread. polished appearance suggests it's touching the bore this is where the rear RH one lived rear LH one was here. arrowed is tooth from my failed holesaw effort these last 2 from RH bank hopefully out at next visit and then will deal with the one which folded after gas-torch put on it as usual threads clean as a whistle. this RH stud showing a little white but not much LH holesaw stud. arrowed is my estimate of how deep it goes into casting cleaned up (and next to pen for scale) they don't look as scary Anyway. I've been stressing badly about not having any work this month (and most of December) but at least now something positive has come out of it. I guess I could have achieved this whilst working at same time but it's perhaps telling that this is first time in years I've not worked daily and suddenly the studs are coming out. I've got to admire your tenacity and inginuity, most people would have given up with this long ago. Good job :-)
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Jan 16, 2021 12:45:27 GMT
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the patience shown in this thread is literally mind blowing, most people would have given up after a few weeks (myself included).
Worth googling "Duralac green" for when you get to fitting new studs. it's an anti seize goop used on boats. I use it on a lot of stuff, notably the long thin bolts on rover V8 timing covers. There is one bolt in particular that goes into the cooling jacket and these are notorious for seizing and snapping. Since using Duralac I have never had an issue.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Jan 16, 2021 12:47:07 GMT
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the patience shown in this thread is literally mind blowing, most people would have given up after a few weeks (myself included). Worth googling "Duralac green" for when you get to fitting new studs. it's an anti seize goop used on boats. I use it on a lot of stuff, notably the long thin bolts on rover V8 timing covers. There is one bolt in particular that goes into the cooling jacket and these are notorious for seizing and snapping. Since using Duralac I have never had an issue. thanks quaggers. I'll be Googling that in a minute lol
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Jan 16, 2021 14:22:01 GMT
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I've got to admire your tenacity and inginuity, most people would have given up with this long ago. Good job :-) thanks homersimpson. I guess you've just got to keep at things no matter how futile it seems. small detail but, that fancy pen in last pic.... present from my Mum; lost it after writing a receipt, for customer, in my car the other week; messaged customer to see if in her house (unlikely); no reply; last week - phone ringing off the hook as she'd pulled radiator off wall; reluctantly go back the customer's house to hang rad on wall; my pen is under rad what am I on about? well if you'd said to me last week I'd get my pen back and get the studs out I'd have confidently bet £1000 that you'd be wrong lol
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Last Edit: Jan 16, 2021 14:22:42 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Jan 16, 2021 17:24:02 GMT
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Well done Foxy. This is great news!
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1972 Ford Consul GT - SOLD 1978 Ford Cortina Ghia 1980 Rover V8-S 1993 Toyota Supra 1996 Toyota Camry
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Jan 16, 2021 17:54:17 GMT
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Just a thought, but could it be worth cutting down the remaining studs, prior to welding on the nuts, thus allowing more of the welding heat to reach the shrouded section/threads, and less chance of the stud breaking in the middle section?
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ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Jan 16, 2021 21:10:44 GMT
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Excellent progress. 👍
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Jan 16, 2021 22:25:06 GMT
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Edit: Also meant to comment on stainless studs. This is a real can of worms as stainless and aluminium actually have the potential for worse corrosion than plain steel in a hot, wet environment. Add in the fact that it would take a pretty fancy stainless to match the tensile strength of the steel studs and I really think it’s best avoided. Far better to use OE studs with a decent anti seize (not copper based) and make sure you use good quality coolant, preferably mixed with DI water. The other point is that stainless studs will expand more with heat, so reduce the clamping force on the head gasket when hot. Right call to go with OE studs. But really great to see you making progress on this. Keep up the good work!
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Sometimes, others may not understand why you like a car so much. Sometimes, you may not even understand why you like a car so much. But none of that matters; all that matters is that you like the car, and having it makes you happy.
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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So how did it go today? Well, better than I expected. Nearly there - fingers crossed So I get a text from the Gaffer's wife saying he's in hospital (again) and could I stay the night. She doesn't like being in remote farmhouse herself understandably. So I'm thinking 'well plenty time to heat the block up' Anyway I go down, primarily to ensure his woodpile is stocked with split logs for when he gets out, and she explains the daughter is coming down from up North to stay so it's ok. By this time I've already got the box running for another session. It's 4pm and need to get cracking on the log-splitter. Split logs till dark and by that time daughter has arrived and I'm invited in for chat/cuppa/glass of Pinot G. Once that's out the way I explain need to leave as something's cooking in barn. Head over and box is up past 150C. Whip box off and casting is up to at least 132C but don't hang about taking more pics of climbing temp-probe as got more important things to do. Got the last 2 RH studs out. Not easily but they are out with no drama. I took a few video clips which show the struggle lol. Will see if I can share them from YouTube but they are very poor quality and not a fun watch. If I were to do this again I'd find a way of bolting the block to a frame (over the hotplate) so am not having to hold that with foot and welding glove while yanking on the breaker bar. The one nearest timing-end was a real pig to get out even after several revolutions. This is the one which snapped straight away 3 years ago. The other one was easier and was nice to spin it out with the T-bar about half way thru. Pretty sure this is the one that moved some before snapping. With that done I was happy to bin it till tomorrow and deal with the short one. Am thinking mb try and get the block up to even higher than today. "She'll no hold Captain!" One small point is that I dropped a long nail into one of the bores and it went right to the bottom. The nail is 3" long! Perhaps the studs don't go all the way in but it's def more than 2". As usual the threads etc were clean as a whistle 132c on the block 2 more outdepth gaugegoes all the way in 'cept for a few mm2 more home and hosedlooks like studs were in this deep
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Jan 17, 2021 23:43:41 GMT
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Well. I'm amazed to say that's the last one out Last night I went to sleep planning my lines of attack when it ' definitely snapped flush with the block'. There was a lot of thought on the return of the hot-water-Alum-immersion-heater-water-tank idea but my last plan before nodding off was drilling most of it out (freehand) then filling the hole with Nitric Acid to eat it away. Anyway I set off for the barn this afternoon, did another bundle of wood and got a bit curry and a cuppa off the Gaffer's missus and chatted to her and the daughter. It would have been ideal if I'd got the box running before all that but remember I still had to weld a nut on and didn't do that before the wood (as I was under the understanding the daughter was leaving with the log-splitter) so there was no point getting the box hot. I eventually got into the barn and remembered there are no more nuts so I ground the welded part off a used one and punched the thin middle bit out then welded it on. It didn't go well. As I couldn't get weld under it I tried to beef the weld up on the sides and then, obv', the socket won't go on it so it was out with the grinder to try and re-shape it. I couldn't get to some of the weld and tried to hammer the socket on which simpy took the nut down the shaft and I was just left with a mess. As a last-ditch effort (to convince myself I tried) I ground the weld off the last used nut and welded that on top of the mess. I then spent about 2 or 3 hours tidying up and looking for the hinge-cutter and brake-bleed thingy while the box warmed up - slowly. It didn't seem to be getting to the desired 150C and I hadn't found those things (where the fk are they!?) and it was going to snap anyway so it all seemed a waste of time and I was going to miss dinner with my Mum and sister's family. But I continued the search for those things and about half hour later could smell the box was getting hot. Got about 150C on the probe at side of box so was straight on it and couldn't believe the probe (now on block) was showing a shade under 150C. Got the bar on the nut and it moved straight away. "damn that's the weld broke, oh well can call it a day" but it felt ok. Got another couple of turns on it but still wasn't sure what was going on. Set the camera up for a video and it kept turning. Soon after it was making the loud clicking/jerking sound that had been a feature of all the earlier ones which meant the block must've been cooling down to similar temp to those times. Stuck the probe back on and yes it was about 130C. I was thinking if it jams just leave it and warm it again tomorrow but tried a last time and soon after it was loose enough to spin out with the T-bar. So I'm saying the secret is definitely heat the block. looks like 150C is about spot-on. So what's next? Well am going to be doing some serious cleaning then warm the block one last time to drop all the liners back in and after that it should just be some spanner-work box after a couple of hours tidying and searching for stuff block whilst I got tooled-upnot pretty but never thought I'd see this on my dining tablefirst nut had little grip on the studcouldn't get to this bit with grinder and hammering socket on just broke nut #1 from the stud no access to back to weld nut #2 to stack but got plenty on front NB looking at this last short stud that came out they can't be 3" deep in the block as this thing is less than 3" long and there was something above the surface. I think they are a shade over 2" into the casting which means there must be a void underneath. This would mb be useful if someone was to try and drill them out as the stud wouldn't be sitting right at the bottom of the hole
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Last Edit: Feb 5, 2021 0:59:45 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Have you thought about having the block chemically cleaned to clear all the crud out of the oilways and waterways???
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foxy99
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,454
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Well funny you should ask hernerover as that's what's now on my mind. I'd love to take it somewhere and get it back all clean but not sure if there's anywhere near me and what it would cost so will prob just do it myself. The heat applied recently has turned a lot of it to dust so, despite the 7 year limbo, it was probably a good thing the engine seized as I'd have been running it full of curse word. I'm not going to be wasting time getting a pristine look on the outside but will get the inside clean as a whistle plenty cleaning to do
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Great news Foxy, after all these years the block is finally fully dismantled. Usually that is the easy part and building back up is the time consuming bit
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1972 Ford Consul GT - SOLD 1978 Ford Cortina Ghia 1980 Rover V8-S 1993 Toyota Supra 1996 Toyota Camry
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Duggy
Part of things
Posts: 129
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I'd be getting it dipped and cleaned even if it means waiting till you can drive somewhere to drop it off or paying for it to be couriered.
My A+ block came back like brand new when I had it done at Bromsgrove.
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Congratulations ,brilliant final result ,well done for sticking at it all this time.
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moglite
Part of things
Posts: 815
Club RR Member Number: 144
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Well. I'm amazed to say that's the last one out Three cheers Hip Hip Hooray Hip Hip Hooray Hip Hip Hooray
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1967 Morris Oxford Traveller 1979 Toyota LandCruiser BJ40 1993 Daimler Double Six 2007 Volvo XC70 2.4D
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