roundozo
Part of things
Retroless but not for long!
Posts: 332
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Ok so I'm sorry there are no pics of cars. I may have to amend that but thought this article on BBC was quite interesting. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15820069Would you trust a car thats controlled by a computer. An example is the airline industry. Even with all that computing they still need a pilot for when things go wrong. what do you think?
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Last Edit: Dec 7, 2011 15:26:14 GMT by roundozo
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Only really worth having if all the older cars have the system too, otherwise crashes are going to keep happening.
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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roundozo
Part of things
Retroless but not for long!
Posts: 332
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Agreed. When I say interesting, I mean thought provoking. When I say thought provoking, I mean not sure it would work. When I say not sure it’d work I mean, I don’t like it ;D
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Last Edit: Dec 7, 2011 15:31:51 GMT by roundozo
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another take on these modern cars is the drive by wire theory. electric cars driven by electrics with no physical mechanical conection between steering wheel and the wheels. I don't like this idea one bit. how could a fail safe even work on that with no direct link between th driver of the car and the driving wheels? Not for me. too much to go wrong with complex electrics in my opinion.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,537
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A car of the future, yesterday.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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another take on these modern cars is the drive by wire theory. electric cars driven by electrics with no physical mechanical conection between steering wheel and the wheels. I don't like this idea one bit. how could a fail safe even work on that with no direct link between th driver of the car and the driving wheels? When one manufacturer was prototyping fly by wire throttles some of the evaluation cars went into wide open throttle when sat on the brakes. Due to the power of the cars and having auto boxes they would suddenly launch themselves. But that said, I'd love it if cars could all drive themselves.
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roundozo
Part of things
Retroless but not for long!
Posts: 332
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^ exactly my worry. nicely put. To be honest I don’t see it happening for a VERY long time even if it gets off the ground. Too many variables involved.
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Brian Damaged
West Midlands
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 9,555
Club RR Member Number: 33
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Too many variables involved. ....but less variables that you've got right now, where seemingly an entire generation has grown up incapable of controlling a vehicle properly without relying on myriad 'driver aids' to extract them from bother. Call me a curmudgeonly old b'stard, but in my book anyone who can't drive without Electronic Brake Force Distribution, Parking Assist, Satellite Navigation, Reversing Camera, Lane Change Assist, Side Assist, Blind Spot Assist, ad nauseum......shouldn't be behind the wheel. Ever. They already make perfectly good vehicles to carry these people around in complete safety. They are called buses. I'm actually all in favour of total control of vehicles by computer. Just not the system we have now, where morons use technology to supplant their own lack of driving skill. {/rant}
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In theory drive by wire should have far less faults than conventional controls since there is no mechanical wear issues. Its a theory. In the airline industry this is a dead argument. Problem is there is a difference between a regulated route/pilot scenario and you or I nipping down the shops.
I don't see why all cars would need it for it to work. Ships and aircraft mix auto and human controlled vehicles. The driver would still need to be alert and sober to take over if necessary. Mind you seeing many drivers today I'd guess most computer systems would react quicker and better than a panicky woman who'd caught putting her makeup on when a kid runs out or a distracted bloke on his mobile when a car up front emergency stops...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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While I agree with Brian that I'd rather more people were off my race track, I mean the public road and on busses or telecommuting, the era of driver aids has cut road casualties (alongside greater safety features such as pretensioned seatbelts, airbags, etc.)
We now have significantly more cars on the road than in "the classic" or retro eras, mostly doing significantly more miles a year too, yet we kill and maim less people a year on our roads and that has to be a good thing.
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Last Edit: Dec 7, 2011 17:15:15 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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86mike
Part of things
Posts: 453
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I also realise in my post above I seem to confuse drive by wire with autopilot - this was not my intent. Tens or hundreds of thousands of cars out there already quite happily and safely using drive by wire.
And yeah, as these automated systems are still pretty much in development they aren't perfect and that's why they aren't on general sale yet.
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Last Edit: Dec 7, 2011 17:20:49 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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We now have significantly more cars on the road than in "the classic" or retro eras, mostly doing significantly more miles a year too, yet we kill and maim less people a year on our roads and that has to be a good thing. Indeed well said, I'd guess the average speeds are a lot higher now too. I'm all for it, however I know it wont wash here so why bother.
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Tens or hundreds of thousands of cars out there already quite happily and safely using drive by wire. Very true, alot of moderns use them for throttle, ive had 2 vw's with it and it's been an issue on both. One stopped working altogther when it got wet lol. Now I'm glad the clutch and brakes have mechanical things that move when i push them, id like to keep it that way to
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tome30
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,001
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Look what happened with HAL.
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Very true, alot of moderns use them for throttle, ive had 2 vw's with it and it's been an issue on both. One stopped working altogther when it got wet lol. Now I'm glad the clutch and brakes have mechanical things that move when I push them, id like to keep it that way to Never had a clutch cable snap or a master cylinder seal fail? I had an accelerator cable frey and jam causing the revs to pick up and being young an inexperienced I stacked it. Not arguing that any system is without fault...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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BAH! my current car is crash proof! it's pretty tough to crash something that doesn't run
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quote] Never had a clutch cable snap or a master cylinder seal fail? I had an accelerator cable frey and jam causing the revs to pick up and being young an inexperienced I stacked it. Not arguing that any system is without fault... I have had a clutch cable snap but I still like a phsical link between my foot and the the brakes, I just don't trust electronics enough lol
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In big, modern aeroplanes the mechnical link was removed a decade ago. 747-400, most of the Airbus models, not sure, but I'm guessing the Russian a/c have gone the same way too. In modern military aircraft (Saab Gripen, Eurofighter) the aircraft is aerodynamically unstable to achieve the dynamic handling. The pilot just could not fly it if there wasn't fly-by-wire and a computer betweeb the pilot and the control surfaces.
Iirc all these a/c have triple redundancy. I believe in some cases they even have different teams writing the software for the different computers to avoid 'single point failure' modes.
On the other hand, wasn't the Lexus recall a few years ago (throttle controller) a problem with f-b-w system? I guess it is the difference between paying £30k and £30M!!
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