|
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 12:54:40 GMT
|
|
Hi guys, I'm having a problem with my fuel pump on my capri. I had a 2nd hand inline 255 litre per hour pump fitted with 8mm inlet and outlet which worked perfectly. Until I ran it out if fuel, it sucked in a load of air and from then on the pump sounded horrendous and wouldn't fuel the engine properly. I bought a brand new 255 litre per hour pump from eBay but when it arrived the outlet is normal 8mm but the inlet is 15mm!
I had no 15mm fuel hose so to temporarily see if it ran I fitted some here. Hose I ha lying around and clampled it down to the smaller filter pipe. My problem is that this hose is sucking flat and therefore the car is not getting fueled properly. If I bought some correct 15mm fuel hose then put a reducer immediately afterwards to get it back down to 8mm would this solve the problem or will it never work properly unless I have a 15mm pipe coming out of the actual tank?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 13:35:14 GMT
|
|
8mm inlet sounds like a cavalier pump ford mainly have the larger outlet on the tank, can't you return it for a Vauxhall spec one ?
reducing the size restrics the suction so you might find the larger hose will still collapse ? try stepping down using copper water pipe and copper reducers with as little rubber hose as possable between the pump and reducer?
As far as i know the pumps are the same just with different ends crimped on i've uncrimped and changed ends before to fit a Vaux pump on a jag.
|
| |
R.I.P photobucket
|
|
Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 13:37:39 GMT
|
|
I'd just find a chunky filter to fit in, kinda act like a swirl pot if there ever was too little fuel. pump has larger inlet due to increasing pressure. filter also good for stopping stuff buggering up the pump!
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 13:49:47 GMT
|
|
Should have said, I have got a filter there it was the 15mm hose I'd put between the pump and the filter that sucks flat. Do you think if I got a reducer pipe, then had a tiny amount of rubber 15mm pipe between the pump and reducer it would be ok? Or would it just suck the thinner pipe flat?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 15:20:17 GMT
|
|
What you need is vacuum hose!! Not the kind that came with your Henry Hoover but the sort that is used in brake servos ect, they are normally fuel tolerant (do check though) and have much thicker side walls.
|
| |
1994 Rover Metro
1994 Peugeot 405 Estate
1991 Rover Metro Gti 16v
2001 Fiat Seicento Sporting
1999 Fiat Punto 1.2
1994 Peugeot 106 Xnd (x3)
1991 Westfield 7
2004 Landrover 110 SW
2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9Tdi Sport
1959 Ford 107e Prefect
1992 Suzuki Vitara
2008 Skoda Fabia
|
|
Ads 19
Posted a lot
My old r19
Posts: 1,351
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 15:42:16 GMT
|
|
get some decent pipe as above and you should be fine. unless you have some ali air con pipe around
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 16:04:04 GMT
|
|
Reckon some thicker vac hose would still crimp down to 8mm successfully at the other end? Just had a look round homebase for a copper type reducer but the closest I could find was 22-15mm not 15-10/8mm... May buy some vac hose from halfords and pop over to b and q to see if there is a reducer of some sort there...
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 25, 2011 20:38:05 GMT
|
|
Got a 15-10mm reducer and it didn't bloody fit. Was gonna go back and get a better size reducer until I got an email from the eBay seller I got the pump from. He said that the pump NEEDS a 15mm hose right to the tank as it'll run hot and not work as well as it should if the pump is having to suck through a smaller diameter pipe. Pretty gutted and completely sick of wasting time/money on this stupid build.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 26, 2011 20:25:51 GMT
|
Ok, I've posted this on sxoc but because I know how diverse the knowledge is here I thought I'd copy and paste it. Can anyone offer any suggestions? Please read through and if you have a bright idea please let me know! I'm going to cut a long story short here. Some of you may know I've stuck a ca18det in my matt black wide arch capri. Ive had a ridiculous amount of problems with it. Again as some may know I've had a violent light throttle missfire and it cuts out after a rev. Otherwise it's been boosting hard and well. The idles been a bit iffy too. Anyway, I changed all the hoses for mikalors and that didnt sort it, I ruled out the vac leak. I changed the lambda and that didn't sort it either. The timing is good (15 degrees btdc) then the fuel pump died. Thought it was a Walbro as it says it stamped in to the side with the 'CROWN' emblem but it has a sticker saying syntec of something on it. I'm not sure but I 'think' it ran out of fuel as it started to lose a bit of power then the pump went noisy. I limped home filled it up with fuel and drove to work. On the way home the pump went REALLY noisy and the car would hardly run at all. So I bought a new inline pump from eBay, 255lph 'DA-27' but when it arrived I realised the Inlet is a whopping 15mm. My tank is sealed and only has 8mm outlet, I have a rubber hose on the tank outlet going to a big fuel filter ten a rubber hose between the fuel filter and the pump. I've put a small section of 8mm rubber hose on the outlet of the filter and clamped the 15mm hose over it tightly. Here's something interesting. Whilst the pump was broke my new ecu, chip and AFM arrived so I fitted them but couldn't test it. Went out after fitting the pump and the stuttering/missfiring has gone! It still cuts out after a rev but it's actually drivable now!! BUT!!!! The car wasn't boosting, it sounded like it was t being fueled properly, had a look underneath and the 15mm hose between the pump and the filter was getting sucked flat. I presumed this was because of the size difference in pipes. My mate gave me a jag inline pump today. I fitted a new filter and the pump, still slightly different size but only 12 mm now. I fitted clear 12mm hose between the pump inlet and the new filter. Turned the key, sounded good. Took it out, drove well - booted it and it boosted to the redline in every gear and drove well normally too. Then it started to lose power and the pump got noisier. Had a look and the pipe wasn't flat but was a little distorted but seemed to be pulling air bubbles through?  Then it lost loads of power and cut out. Managed to limp it home just about but then it cut out - I turned the key to prime it and it sounded blooming awful and stopped making any noise. The no longer starts. I left it ten minutes and tried to prime it and it did but didnt sound too healthy. Why is it killing pumps? Why are there air bubbles coming through the fuel pipe to the pump? |
| |
|
|
bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
|
|
Aug 27, 2011 11:48:09 GMT
|
|
the pipe cant be sealing on the inlet side of the pump?
toher side is presurised so you'd get a leak but the inlet is under suction so ther must be something not sealing like the filter or hose joins, you have got the pump on the outlet not the return to the tank ? that's caught me out befor on a diesel where both pipes were 8mm and first time i got it wronge and had to claer the air every 2 mins to get it to run, swapped the pipes and it's been fine ever since ?
|
| |
R.I.P photobucket
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 27, 2011 16:36:22 GMT
|
|
Also have you check the obvious that the pick up isn't blocked?
|
| |
1994 Rover Metro
1994 Peugeot 405 Estate
1991 Rover Metro Gti 16v
2001 Fiat Seicento Sporting
1999 Fiat Punto 1.2
1994 Peugeot 106 Xnd (x3)
1991 Westfield 7
2004 Landrover 110 SW
2003 Seat Ibiza 1.9Tdi Sport
1959 Ford 107e Prefect
1992 Suzuki Vitara
2008 Skoda Fabia
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2011 20:24:27 GMT
|
|
It's definitely not on the return but I do suspect that the pickup could be blocked... (I don't see how this wouldcause air bubbles bit it would explain the sucking flat of the hose. Do you think that instead of going 15mm hose from pump to thinner diameter fuel pump to a foot of 8mm hose, 15mm straight to th 8mm outlet in the tank would be ok? (new pump has inbuilt filter) just wondering if it would sort the sucking flat issue? Or am I gonna have to try and modify the tank to a 15mm outlet?
|
| |
|
|
Copey
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,845
|
|
Aug 29, 2011 20:43:09 GMT
|
get a 2.8i capri tank if you can Dave! already have the correct outlet for the pump you have  |
| |
1990 Ford Sierra Sapphire GLSi with 2.0 Zetec
1985 Ford Capri 3.0 (was a 2.0 Laser originally)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2011 21:11:49 GMT
|
get a 2.8i capri tank if you can Dave! already have the correct outlet for the pump you have beat me to it. if you haven't already got one this is what you should be using. also ref the poor running. have you checked the throttle position sensor is working correctly? get a s13 CD manual, it will tell you how to check bits like this. i had some running issues with my ca18det which i put down to poor fueling, turned out the coil packs had bad contacts on the plugs  |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2011 21:14:04 GMT
|
Definitely a blockage on the inlet side of the pump/tank pick-up. Slightly random nature suggests maybe a lump of crud wandering around in the tank and getting sucked into the pickup pipe when fuel is low. When the blockage occurs, the pump will try to suck the pipe flat, but the low pressure will also cause the fuel to vapourise or boil, hence the bubbles. This bubbling will also be occurring worse in the pump - this is "cavitation" and will make horrible noises. It will also kill the pump if it goes on for long enough. BTW, sounds like the pump you need is the Sytech OTP017 www.fuelpumpsonline.co.uk/sytec-external-in-line-fuel-injection-pump-otp017-1931-p.aspThis is a replacement for the common Bosch 0580 464 070 as used on Astras, Cavaliers, Peugeot 205GTI, injected Peugeot 405s and others. Has 8mm hose tail outlet and 12mm hose tail inlet. Never come across one with 8mm both ends. Note that the original Bosch pumps have an inlet strainer built in but the Sytech one doesn't seem to, so would recommend an inline strainer between the tank and pump. Nick |
| |
Last Edit: Aug 29, 2011 21:20:52 GMT by vitesseefi
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend)
1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing)
1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 29, 2011 21:41:27 GMT
|
Can't find a 2.8i tank and they seem to go for silly money! My old 255 'Walbro' was 8mm in and out and was perfect  I'll just unblock the pickup (hopefully it's blocked..) and maybe fit a 15mm outlet to he pickup/sender plate. Thanks for the info on the bubbles etc. Makes sense  the pump I got is rated 255 lph which is what I need according to my other mods it's just the size of the blinking inlet! Cheers for the link though. I've solved the poor running (bar fuel starvation) it was either a faulty AFM or ecu, I swapped em both over at the same time so don't know which but I reckon ecu. Still cuts out after a rev though, separate problem it seems ;D |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 30, 2011 18:51:49 GMT
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2011 20:58:33 GMT
|
Does anyone know anyone near Merseyside who can modify this to 15mm diameter? It needs to be done really quick (I need the car running by September 7th for something really important) I'll pay obviously..  Or can anyone think of a way it could be done easily, like is there a reason why I couldn't drill a hole through it, weld in 2 or 3 inches of straight pipe then lay some fuel resistant hose to sit inside the tank instead of the shaped metal piece? Obviously with a filter of some sort. |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2011 21:29:32 GMT
|
i give up |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Aug 31, 2011 21:33:26 GMT
|
|
What's that supposed to mean?? From tonights tinkering it's almost certainly the step down from 15mm to 8mm causing a restriction that's making the pumps struggle. Seems like increasing the tank outlet to 15mm is a perfectly reasonable suggestion?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
Then it lost loads of power and cut out. Managed to limp it home just about but then it cut out - I turned the key to prime it and it sounded blooming awful and stopped making any noise. The no longer starts.
I'll just unblock the pickup (hopefully it's blocked..) and maybe fit a 15mm outlet to he pickup/sender plate. 
the pump I got is rated 255 lph which is what I need according to my other mods it's just the size of the blinking inlet! Cheers for the link though.