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Jul 13, 2011 21:03:11 GMT
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I'm presently 'negotiating' with a man to buy a 280z here in Canada, although I am also thinking that a 924 may be a better bet in the long term. Datsun Z's (240-280) actually have terrible aerodynamics, their .cd is around .38, more depending on additions - it's been beaten to death as a topic on the hybridz site. It's a fair bit of work to get them to be anything close to economical...so I'm seriously thinking of a TDI transplant for...the...*Torques* ...it's a lightweight chassis...can be stripped down to around 900kg...the original engine the L24s, L26 and L28 while they sound glorious, they drink heavily. While I live in the Great White North where the petrodollar is king...it doesn't mean it's cheap at the pump...infact it tends to mirror the UK price only in $, moreover though, to get ANYWHERE means a long drive, 2-3 hour commutes in one direction are not uncommon, if anything they are the norm given the insanity that is Canadian house prices. As such, an economical car but pretty would be appreciated, especially as the majority of Canada's roads are populated with white pickup trucks and cars that resemble washing machines and other white goods. Hell if MotoIQ guys can get 70mpg with a 2003 TDI block in a mk1 golf...I can manage it in something more slippery. I know it's a false ideology, why try and bash a round peg into a square hole, but, in the interests of an awesome thread, what cars do you think would make for awesome, economical, slippery retros? Before anyone says 'don't do that to a 280z' remember where you are...this is RR...
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Last Edit: Jul 22, 2011 19:29:47 GMT by camerashy
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Jul 13, 2011 21:16:44 GMT
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I've been having similar thoughts this afternoon too. I've just got my Volvo 240 estate, and it's great, really good car, but I agreed to buy it when I was earning decent money full time, with a 5 mile commute. Things in life have since changed, and I've made the decision to go back to uni this coming year, this means I'll have sod all money, and I'll be wanting to drive between Oxford and Somerset on a regular basis. I was initially thinking of putting a 2.1td Peugeot engine in the Volvo, however as awesome as that would be, I'd still only be looking at 40mpg. This has got me thinking, I've still got my Scirocco in the garage, I'm struggling to sell it for sensible money, and it's a car I really like, and have put a lot of time and effort into making it a nice place to be. Now with a carbed 1.8 petrol engine that used to reliably get high 30s to the gallon, and although I don't know a figure, they seem to be a fairly slippery car. Sticking a '90s rotary pump 1.9tdi in it would be a MUCH easier swap than the Volvo swap would be, and I reckon I'd be looking at the best part 60mpg taking it easy. I'd loose the practicality of the Volvo unfortunately, but the Scirocco wasn't impractical, and I've always got a roof rack for it. haha So yeah, although it's not exactly what you're thinking, it's a similar idea, take a retro coupe, and slap a modernish diesel engine in it; enjoy many mpg's . Edit: Thinking about it, in your case, a 1.9tdi VW engine should drop into a 924 pretty easily. I believe you have to make a few tweaks to the bell-housing to get the VW lumps to bolt up, otherwise if you were to use the engine from a B5 passat/A4/A6 then it'll even have the mounts in around the right place, and the downpipe pointing the roughly the right direction. Definitely worth thinking about.
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2011 21:36:31 GMT by RobinJI
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Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
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Jul 13, 2011 21:50:00 GMT
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Wouldn't it be a better idea to see if a diesel from the same manufaturer will fit the existing gearbox? Could be difficult to find a RWD box for the VW engine
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Jul 13, 2011 22:12:46 GMT
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Supra gearboxes actually bolt up with a bellhousing adapter or if you had a very detuned box, a samurai box, others have been done with a W123 box..the list is actually pretty long. ...back on topic.....with another...photo...
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gn3dr
Part of things
Posts: 391
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Jul 13, 2011 22:17:32 GMT
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I assume you've seen this - a Merc Diesel engine - Ok not exactly tuned for economy but it's diesel Being serious though I think the other thing to factor in rather than drag figures is the weight of the car.
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Last Edit: Jul 13, 2011 22:20:23 GMT by gn3dr
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Jul 13, 2011 22:27:25 GMT
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gn3dr - check original build thread in sig for planned weight reduction
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Jul 13, 2011 22:39:07 GMT
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I've always facied an X19 or TR7 with a modern Toyota D4D engine in it. OR even an MR2 with a modern derv as there is plenty about with V6 petrol conversions from Camry's and such like so how hard could it be
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Some days you just need to take a grinder to an inanimate object, just to make your day a tiny bit better!!
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I was thinking on the sedan front, about the only not-completely-boring fairly aerodynamic (cd of what, 0.29?) vehicle I could come up with that was sold there is the late 80's Audi 80. Only problem is they are heavy old tanks. Comfy though, and with the addition of an oil-burner might get some sort of halfway decent returns. If lightness if ultimately what you are after... well. Er. No. I've come up stumped. Ha.
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2011 0:07:24 GMT by PhilA
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I assume you've seen this - a Merc Diesel engine - Ok not exactly tuned for economy but it's diesel Being serious though I think the other thing to factor in rather than drag figures is the weight of the car. This one is for sale, 19000 € www.nettiauto.com/datsun/240/39754380-200 in 12 sec, and he claims it's economical
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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The Audi 80's drag coefficient is 0.30, it was actually etched on the rear quarter windows of some models.
Theoretically speaking, a cars weight shouldn't be too much of an issue when on the move. Maintaining a constant speed the cars only fighting drag, not trying to accelerate a mass, so besides a slight increase in rolling resistance, a heavier car isn't actually going to make much difference on long cruises. Obviously around town it will make a big difference though.
It's also worth thinking about the cars frontal area, it's all well and good saying it's got a low coefficient of drag, but if it's got a big frontal area it's still going to have a high overall drag.
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Doesn't 80's mercs have very little drag despite their barn-door like front end?
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EmDee
Club Retro Rides Member
Committer of Autrocities.
Posts: 5,932
Club RR Member Number: 108
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2011 1:09:28 GMT by EmDee
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THE_Liam
Yorkshire and The Humber
If at first you don't succeed... HAMMERS.
Posts: 1,363
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What about an 80's Audi 100 with a 1.9 TDI from a B4 80 in it? Very low drag an 60 mpg?
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I was thinking on the sedan front, about the only not-completely-boring fairly aerodynamic (cd of what, 0.29?) vehicle I could come up with that was sold there is the late 80's Audi 80. Only problem is they are heavy old tanks. Comfy though, and with the addition of an oil-burner might get some sort of halfway decent returns. If lightness if ultimately what you are after... well. Er. No. I've come up stumped. Ha. Not sure if you got them or not over in the U.S, but they did actually make a 1.6 TD version of the B3 '80. The later B4 80's come with a 1.9 TDI which proves extremely ecomonical (i had an avant last year). I've always fancied a lightened mk2 polo breadavan with a 1.4TDI out of a lupo, those engines are renound for econmony, and in an even lighter car i'd imagine the figures would be excellent! Joe
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2011 7:35:11 GMT by polojoe
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if you are interested in economy and hybrids then this guy has been blogging his efforts for some years now. www.mrsharkey.com/pusher.htmbasically its an electric golf but with a diesel golf trailer as a pusher engine
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What about an 80's Audi 100 with a 1.9 TDI from a B4 80 in it? Very low drag an 60 mpg? I Like that, for me lower and smaller wheels though
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'90 Audi B3 Coupe 2.3 Auto [gone] '92 Audi S4 Avant 2.2 AAN Turbo Auto [gone] '93 Audi 80 Avant 1.9TDi [gone] '96 Audi A4 Avant 2.6 Quattro [gone] '97 VW T4 1.9td LWB [gone] '03 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi [gone] '05 VW T5 Shuttle LWB 1.9TDi '15 VW Caddy Maxi Kombi 1.6TDi
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www.ecomodder.com some mad stuff going on on there. Shove a powerstroke diesel into a CROWN Victoria, spats, moon discs, roof chop and kam tail...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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EmDee
Club Retro Rides Member
Committer of Autrocities.
Posts: 5,932
Club RR Member Number: 108
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www.ecomodder.com some mad stuff going on on there. Shove a powerstroke diesel into a CROWN Victoria, spats, moon discs, roof chop and kam tail... Thats the link I was looking for when I posted above! I couldnt remember the name for the life of me, Thanks for that Akku
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Jul 14, 2011 13:31:04 GMT
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I really don't know if they marketed the 80 here with a diesel in. Back then I think the only marque offering a derv family car was Mercedes, hence why I said to transplant something.
Down here int he south, it's as flat as Holland so stupidly tall gears and big lazy engines are de rigeur- 55mph barely sees me break 1000rpm in my truck (and it redlines at 5900), and that's where the economy comes in. Get a good bit of low-end torque, and burble along with the throttle barely open.
--Phil
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Jul 14, 2011 17:45:13 GMT
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i've got a 2.7 944 and it can go down to london (130miles away) at 100mph (indicated), and back on one tank of petrol. it is a big tank though, 70L iirc.
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