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May 10, 2011 19:35:46 GMT
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There was a time when I couldn't have changed a spark plug, but I wanted to build a kitcar. I started by buying a wreck of a Mk2 Escort and rebuilt it. It still didn't end up concours, but having taken most of the car apart, I totally stripped and rebuilt the engine. Too much of the project was bodging the bodywork, but I still learnt how a car goes together, and how it works, the 3D way. That gave me the confidence to built not a kitcar, but a series of kitcars over the years, some of which ended up with engines that weren't intended for them. Buy an interesting wreck, strip it and rebuild it. You could do this fairly cheaply. Remember to view any costs as experience that will aid you in future projects. And have fun.
20 years later, project cars have cost me money, but that's been offset by gaining a lot of skills and confidence to tackle almost any project, including bigger DIY projects around the house. As has already been said, projects are just stuff bolted together. A bit of research on the internet may help you grasp how easily, or otherwise, your chosen 'stuff' will bolt together. With enough time, and enough money, anything is possible.
:-)
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May 10, 2011 20:02:55 GMT
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I'm sat looking at threads about engine swaps and assorted mayhem, like V8 Chevette's, Trabby engined Golf's and the like... How do you guys learn how to do this stuff? I think this all the time. I feel like a total imposter on this forum, having absolutely no skill whatsoever in tinkering with engines and suchlike. I'm in constant fear of being found out. You just need to start doing the little things; checking the oil, the plugs and go from there. Doesn't hurt if you are mechanically-minded though; my Dad (RIP) and Uncle, twins BTW, were engineers by trade and used lathes (usually with a roll-up perched on their lips) like we use the Internet, one of my brothers is a qualified electrician and his 15-year-old son is already servicing cars, about the same time I started working on my first Mini. So it seems it's in the DNA. But don't let that stop you starting; just remember to ask lots of questions!
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May 10, 2011 20:19:20 GMT
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Dez, that was brilliant, perfectly written. My take is have a go, plan it and think of a back up plan if it goes tits up. Using common parts which you can source easily can save headaches! Always keep a bicycle on standby too.......lol.
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May 10, 2011 21:30:55 GMT
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Internet has made this way easier. I wish I had the online resources available now when I was 17 and had all the time in the world and little or no cash. Not just to learn but to buy as well. You can get pretty much any part you need. I struggled like he'll to get used bits for a 88 Celica around 1998.
As I've got older I've realised that very little in life is difficult. I guess even brain surgery is a cut and shut project you just need a hell of a lot of experience, confidence and tools. As said before, work on cheap cars, less to lose. I suppose my biggest project was making one good car out of two Porsches. They were ÂŁ100 each so got stuck in. Had they been several grand I wouldn't have been so keen.
Sadly as tools and experience increases, free time drops due to life and family. Hopefully you get to a good interim point where you have enough of the former to do the job in what time you have.
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May 10, 2011 21:33:44 GMT
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Oh yeah, with careful projects you can make money. My car habit is running about 1k in profit at moment, including insurance and fuel and that's just from buying carefully fixing up, getting bored and selling well on eBay.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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How do you guys do it??!?Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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May 10, 2011 21:48:56 GMT
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a little quote to sum it up- 'Qualifications once the Golden Rule are now just pieces of paper' Unless you have relevant qualifications, in which case you're much better off. You might get along just fine without qualifications, but you're a fool if you think you're better off without them! there are no relevant qualifications to what i do. even if there was, i wouldnt earn any more for having them. city and guilds? worthless(to me). too easy to pass and too general. degree? i did half of the most relevant one, BEng automotive engineering. it mostly involved drawing things on solidworks and autoCAD. not a single lesson of workshop time in two years. if id have wanted to do a degree in cad design, id have done one rather than them pretending it was at all automotive related. the majority of people on the course new absolutely nothing about cars. coded welder? pretty irrelevant, wouldnt earn me any more money. the thing that gets me work is my backcatalogue- its tangeable proof i know what I'm doing, not a piece of paper saying i proport to know what I'm doing. I also grew up in the 80's/90's when it was fashionable to push everyone into F.E. and as a result there is a skills shortage now. The paper work merely gave me the theoretical background on which to base practical skills, but in this day of the Interweb, information is everywhere and easy to get. Understanding it is an aquired skill and may need some outside guidance. I always was, and still am, a big believer in experience. You can read all the books in the world, but they don't teach you how to hold a spanner. Practice, practice, practice.. exactly my point. you can get nowhere with theory alone, but experience alone is a powerful tool, that can then be re-enforced with a little careful backround reading. Dez , " Up in the morning and out to school , Mother says there'll be no work next year" i am guessing due to our slight age difference, you know it from the original billy bragg version? alas, being much younger i was introduced to it by the lars frederiksen cover, but it doesnt reduce the power of those words. the epitome of punk rock attitude. its a song to live your life by thats for sure.
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May 10, 2011 21:56:34 GMT
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Be brave, go on - everything - and I mean everything - can be repaired. Success doesn't come without failure Brilliant I feel like a teeny bit of an imposter on here; I haven't actually done anything on my own car at all, in fact I've only just learnt to drive and got (half) a car. But I'm pretty sure I could do a fair bit of stuff if I gave it a go. I just need to give it a go. Must get along to Area 52... I have worked on other people's cars at college, work experience and working at Halfords, and that's definitely helped. Basically, try and work on someone else's car first because then if you break it... ;D
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1989 Peugeot 205. You know, the one that was parked in a ditch on the campsite at RRG'17... the glass is always full. but the ratio of air to water may vary.
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May 10, 2011 22:35:14 GMT
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I have realised that if you have the right people round you to help out advise - then you have a fair chance of tackling the kind of project later on. I don't - and never have. I know full well I will never fabricate something radical/create something amazing, but that doesn't mean I can't have fun running/modifying the capri. it just might take me a bit longer/cost me a bit more!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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How do you guys do it??!?stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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May 10, 2011 22:57:57 GMT
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Same here, I can swap suspension, change brakes, that kind of thing, but when I see folks swapping engines, fabricating scratchbuild components, and welding metal together, I find it all pretty humbling... Going by the way you marked the shock brakets out for project X you can obviously visualise how bits of metal fit together so you're pretty much there. I hated the automotive course I did at uni. Sat in a class of 25 men and probably 20 of them didn't know which part of a car did what, should be made out of or ever where it went. I once had a chat with a tutor who did all the material strength lectures and told him to ask for a show of hands of who knew what castor angle was. IIRC me and 2 others knew, and by the dumfounded faces the rest probably thought it was how far you had to tip a bag of sugar before it poured out. However it's understandable, most of them had done nothing more involved with cars than driving and reading Top Gear/Autocar until that point. I only know what everything does, where it fits and how it works because i've had to fix/modify/adapt it. Matt
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May 10, 2011 23:05:47 GMT
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been at it like most since my teens started with simple serviceing type jobs & progressed from there, whatever size the job do your research give yourself plenty of time & get stuck in. i liked the fact of proveing all the doubters wrong that i wasn't upto the job or that it wasn't possible to do it, wasn't cost efective etc. like mark said don't do it to please them, do it to please you.
have to agree experience is what counts & keep learning, i stated in 83 & i'm still learning now, never be afraid to ask for help/advice, look it it as its broke/worn out & i can't really make it more broken/worn out.
try to get decent tools (they don't have to be expensive just good quality) 2nd hand professional stuff can be a fraction of the new price & will out last you in diy hands, also look out for the special tools no longer needed by workshops as they don't see our cars anymore.
finding a good local parts store is a must for info aswell as parts once they get to know you ,you'll prob start getting a discount & thats a bonus not to be sniffed at. if your not going to do this for a liveing/profit then don't loose sight of the fact its for fun/pride/satisfaction of being different.
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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May 10, 2011 23:11:02 GMT
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Going by the way you marked the shock brakets out for project X you can obviously visualise how bits of metal fit together so you're pretty much there. Matt The ability to be able to visualise is one of the greatest gifts I have when it comes to working on cars. I have a virtual model of my current two projects in my head, constantly being refined. I also find it helps keep my all-important mojo on an even keel.
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May 10, 2011 23:44:51 GMT
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I'm technically a qualified mechanic, or 'workshop technician', But I would sh!t bricks if I managed to get a job in a garage. Those bricks would increase in size and number if I saw others that were on my course working in a garage. I had a passable knowledge before I did my course and saw it mainly as confirming what I already knew or expanding on subjects that I was hazy on.
My qualification is useless. Handy, but useless.
I bought my Chevette before I went to college and signed up to this place around the same time. Working on the Chevette and perusing the readers rides section here has taught me more than my course ever could. Learn by doing. Area 52 was a fantastic help in this. I may not get stuck in that much (mainly because I'd hate to FUBAR someones car) but seeing people doing something that I would probably shy away from gives me the confidence to get my hands dirty with my own car.
To that end I'm hopefully picking up the new engine for the Chevette soon. I didn't choose it, circumstance and luck did, but seeing what people can do both on here and at A52 keeps the mojo levels high and the aim within grasp.
Long live the home builds, the back yard specials and a community willing to share the knowledge for all of these to be achieved! ;D
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Faster. Faster. Until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
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BiAS
Club Retro Rides Member
Insert witty comment here
Posts: 2,231
Club RR Member Number: 147
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How do you guys do it??!?BiAS
@cheeqi
Club Retro Rides Member 147
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It's all about doingThis: have to agree experience is what counts & keep learning, I started in 83 & i'm still learning now, never be afraid to ask for help/advice, look at it as its broke/worn out & I can't really make it more broken/worn out is the crux of it really, buy something cheap and learn with your hands
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(car+wheels)-rideheight=WIN
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,614
Club RR Member Number: 11
Member is Online
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How do you guys do it??!?skinnylew
@skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member 11
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I'm sat looking at threads about engine swaps and assorted mayhem, like V8 Chevette's, Trabby engined Golf's and the like... How do you guys learn how to do this stuff? It can be summed up in a mathmatical formula: I + R/L x B = AI is Inspiration (Retro rides obviously) R is Research (internet, someone will have done something that is relevant) L is learning by doing (Read guides, ask on here, practice skills, take things apart and put them back together. Then repeat including the bits you missed out first time round ;D ) B is Balls (buy the bits and give it a go!) A is Awesome!! The final product Simples!
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Last Edit: May 11, 2011 0:02:34 GMT by skinnylew
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as said above long live back street/home builders most of the stuff in the world was made/started like this, it amazes me at times how the powers that be do thier best to stifle creativety in any field ! & is a big part of why this country & other so called world leaders are in the mire.
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theres more to life than mpg & to much power is just enough.
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[[/quote] It can be summed up in a mathmatical formula: I + R/L x B = AI is Inspiration (Retro rides obviously) R is Research (internet, someone will have done something that is relevant) L is learning by doing (Read guides, ask on here, practice skills, take things apart and put them back together. Then repeat including the bits you missed out first time round ;D ) B is Balls (buy the bits and give it a go!) A is Awesome!! The final product Simples! [/quote] this needs to go on the next RR t-shirt, pretty much sums it all up
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'90 Audi B3 Coupe 2.3 Auto [gone] '92 Audi S4 Avant 2.2 AAN Turbo Auto [gone] '93 Audi 80 Avant 1.9TDi [gone] '96 Audi A4 Avant 2.6 Quattro [gone] '97 VW T4 1.9td LWB [gone] '03 Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi [gone] '05 VW T5 Shuttle LWB 1.9TDi '15 VW Caddy Maxi Kombi 1.6TDi
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as said above long live back street/home builders most of the stuff in the world was made/started like this, it amazes me at times how the powers that be do thier best to stifle creativety in any field ! & is a big part of why this country & other so called world leaders are in the mire. Very very true . In a post apocalyptic world who you gonna call ? Dez, how very diplomatic of you !LOL Yes. original version for me.
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Last Edit: May 11, 2011 7:31:45 GMT by kapri
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I think this all the time. I feel like a total imposter on this forum, having absolutely no skill whatsoever in tinkering with engines and suchlike. I'm in constant fear of being found out. You just need to start doing the little things; checking the oil, the plugs and go from there. Doesn't hurt if you are mechanically-minded though; my Dad (RIP) and Uncle, twins BTW, were engineers by trade and used lathes (usually with a roll-up perched on their lips) like we use the Internet, one of my brothers is a qualified electrician and his 15-year-old son is already servicing cars, about the same time I started working on my first Mini. So it seems it's in the DNA. But don't let that stop you starting; just remember to ask lots of questions! It all started well - my dad was very much of the mindset that there was no point paying a mechanic to do something you could work out how to do yourself; he always serviced and fixed his own cars, and when I was a teenager he built a kit car from the ground up, despite never having tried anything like it before. When I blew up the engine in my first car, he was keen for us to rebuild it together. He'd very methodically take me through the process of changing brake pads or oil pumps or whatever, placing particular emphasis on why each stage needed to be done, rather than just what to do. However, after I finished uni and moved out (and my folks retired and moved to France), I found that all of the things I'd ever achieved with any of my cars had been a team effort - without my dad's guiding hand, I was totally lost. I had no confidence in my own work (if I tinkered with my own brakes, would I believe that they'd save me in an emergency...?), so I just got into the habit of paying garages to fix/service/modify my cars. This has never really troubled me. I know I can't do it (I mean, I probably could, but I'd have no faith in my work), so I pay someone who knows what they're doing. However, the increasing prevalence of the 'Built, Not Bought' brigade seems to be opening up a gulf between car enthusisasts like me who love driving and appreciate cars from a theoretical, aesthetic and dynamic standpoint and those who are handy with spanners. I feel like I'm being elbowed out of the scene I love.
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here is my advice - go to a friendly scrapyard and ask if you can take bits off a car and attempt to put them back together. Anything i broke i paid for, but most of the time the scrappy didnt charge me. Also, doing it this way means you don't have yet another project/wreck on your driveway
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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THE_Liam
Yorkshire and The Humber
If at first you don't succeed... HAMMERS.
Posts: 1,363
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I come from a family with a couple of mechanics and loads of low-budget petrolheads, and grew up with mechanics living next door and opposite who were good mates of my old man, so I was always surrounded by old cars, one of my earliest memories is my old man rebuilding a type 9 'box in the kitchen, and I was always surrounded by cool retro stuff... When I got my first car it was a shed of a Fiat Uno that needed a lot of work so I pretty much learnt on that, starting with servicing, pads and discs, shockers and the like and then moving on to bigger stuff like the HG and a clutch. I think it helped that I lived half a mile from my work so didn't need the car to get there, which meant I could have it off the road if I got stuck I've just gone from there really, throwing myself into every job that needed doing and just muddling through it, I've had my disasters, like: - Dropping a screw down the inlet mani while fitting a new carb (head off ) - Changing the clutch on a 306 only to realise I'd fitted the release bearing wrong (start again!) - Knocking the timing out on a 306, destroying the top end - Setting fire to a Fiesta while welding the sill, and watching it burn to the ground My tips are: - Decent tools, don't buy cheap. I can't afford Snap-On, but I've always been happy with Clarke, Draper and even Halfords Proffesional (WD40, spanners, sockets, screwdrivers, WD40, pliers, hex/torx keys, WD40, several different weights and shapes of hammer, WD40) - Decent workspace (Nice level driveway, near a kettle) - Patience. Rome was not built in a day, and neither was a b*tchin motor. - Enthusiasm. You need to enjoy it, or you won't finish. I don't really have the time to tinker these days due to an office career with a big utility company, but I love to when I get the chance. The only thing that confuses me is newer cars, trying to work out what all the daft sensors on my 106 engine do gives me a headache... What amuses me is the look on someones face at work when they tell me it cost a grand for the clutch replacing on their '09 Fiesta, and the amazed look on their face when I tell them I do that myself
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