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Mar 28, 2011 10:12:28 GMT
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I'd like to learn to weld and therefore want to buy some suitable equipment. Can anyone recommend a good beginners welding set-up. I understand that MIG is the easiest to start with so I assume something along these lines would be good.
I don't expect to be welding on an industrial basis(!) I just want something capable of keeping a midget in MOT certificates.
Apologies if this is an overdone subject.
Cheers, Steve
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Beginners welding equipmentBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 28, 2011 11:07:50 GMT
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I've found the Clarke welders that Machine Mart sell to be pretty good. I'd recommend getting a gas (CO2) MIG welder as the gasless ones, although slightly cheaper, aren't as versatile in my opinion. I've got a Clarke welder and it's been great so far. I had a SIP one before that which stood up to years of heavy use and abuse before finally blowing up! SIP welders seem to have more varied opinions on them though.
One thing that's a godsend is an auto-darkening mask. I struggled for years with the crappy hand-held mask you get free with most welders, and having one hand tied up holding the mask just made things so much more difficult.
I've been using the disposable CO2 bottles but been meaning to switch to a big bottle. The disposables are OK but a false economy. They'll be fine if all you do is the odd patch here and there, but if you're embarking on a bigger project the costs can quickly mount up.
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Mar 28, 2011 11:11:54 GMT
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What's your budget? I (and others too..) will instantly start praising Portamigs, but with a starting price of about £530 before you take consumables and a welding mask into account, it may not fall into your budget. My budget was around £300 and I ended up doubling that after regularly using someone elses Portamig.
Have a browse of the mig welding (migwelding.co.uk I think) forum for more info. Clarke's stuff always seem to get good reviews for entry level stuff.
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring.
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Mar 28, 2011 11:15:04 GMT
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Ah, yes. Everything Dean said as well. An auto darkening helmet can cost as little as £30 and is an absolute revelation compared to a handheld thing, and will save your eyes.
I have a BOC contract under their 'Volkszone' deal. I reckon they'd probably still honour it if you call them. Having decent gas bottles makes a huge difference as the flow rate is much more controllable and you won't be worrying about running out every few minutes and spending another £15 on a tiny bottle.
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...proper medallion man chest wig motoring.
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Mar 28, 2011 11:40:56 GMT
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Clarke 150 MIG welder
Auto dimming helmet
Thick welding gloves (garters) from Screwfix
Wire brush to brush off welds and keep the workpiece snot-free
Knot-wheel for on your grinder to clean up metal and take off paint
Side cutters for clipping the MIG wire for a nice clean start
Other stuff that will make your life easier: Snips, selection of clamps, pliers, hammer, cutting and grinding discs, jigsaw with metal cutting blade, scrap metal etc.
Edit: don't buy cheap stuff. False economy. Much of the cheap stuff I've bought I've had to replace and it's cost me more in the long run.
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2011 11:41:51 GMT by Deleted
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Mar 28, 2011 12:18:01 GMT
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I'll give another vote for Clarke. I bought mine as a stop gap until my insurance paid out after my Cebora got nicked nearly ten years ago. Needless to say, the one supplied by insurance got moved on and I stuck with the Clarke as it's a great little machine. Mine's a 175-TE and it's been dead reliable, welding everything from bodywork to steel plate.
Priciest bit for me is gas. I have an Argon mix bottle on contact which cost about £42 a year to rent plus gas on top. If you do more than the odd days welding here and there then it's worth the cost IMO and for a beginer, I would definately recoment an Argon mix over CO2. Much easier to produce neat welds.
I also concur on the auto darkening mask. But buy a solar one not a battery powered one. They are dead cheap now. My last one was a Speedglass one which was quite pricey. I just replaced it with an SWP one and it's just as good but a fraction of the price.
Also make sure you always have a spare roll of wire and spare welding tips. Nothing more annoying than finding you've run out of something just as you're about to crack on with a days welding, especially at a weekend!
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2011 12:18:32 GMT by Ratdat
1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,538
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Mar 28, 2011 13:03:09 GMT
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I think you mean gauntlets. Another happy Clarke user here. I have a 120E (a model they don't do any more) and its been perfectly capable at welding bodywork and slightly thicker steel together. Something heavier duty and more expensive will certainly be more flexible in the (very) long run but if you're starting out and initial plans are for what you've described, then the extra expense now may not be worth it.
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
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Mar 28, 2011 13:26:50 GMT
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As Mr 69 said, Clarke 151Te is a classic budget welder with a good rep. I use old leather motorbike gloves, the thinner type. Mini bottles will drive you mad eventually. Consider a pub bottle, adaptor (approx £28 posted off the bay), and use CO2. Approx £10-15 a refill depending where you can snaffle it. Argon mix better on thin steel, but CO2 is so cheap.
Ear plugs. Not that I ever actually manage to stick the damned things in, but theoretically they avoid you hearing your own ear sizzle when welding upside down... ;D
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'66 Amazon <-> '94 LS400 <-> '86 Suzuki 1135 EFE
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Beginners welding equipmentBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 28, 2011 13:37:20 GMT
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I think you mean gauntlets. Best. Freudian. Slip. Ever. ;D ;D ;D For tin snips, I bought a pair of Wiss straight-cut aviation snips. They are great, and compare pretty well to the Snap On set I used before them. A good bodywork hammer or two is very useful - I used to borrow my brother's Snap On one which was a delight to use. Really nicely weighted and just seemed so easy to shape metal with.
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Mar 28, 2011 13:50:03 GMT
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don't buy a really powerfull MIG unless you can turn it down low, more powerfull is not always better.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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dungbug
Posted a lot
'Ooligan!
Posts: 2,852
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Mar 28, 2011 14:14:52 GMT
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Another vote for the Clarke welder, I used to have a 105en (iirc) gas/gasless type. Always got better results with gas to be honest, I welded up a 74 bug with mine (first time I'd welded anything) and found it easy to use. I'd say before you attack the car with it do some practice welds on some scrap steel, lay some welds down that are tidy and know you're comfortable before starting any work. As Jonny69 said, don't buy cheap sub standard cutters etc, they don't last. You might find this useful, I certainly did. www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/index.phpBest of luck chap.
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Past: 13 VW Beetles from 1967 - 1974 Bay Window Campers (1973 & 1974) Mini's (1992 Cooper lookalike & 1984 '25 Anniversary) MK2 Polo Coupe S (1984 & 1986) MK2 Polo Breadvan (1981 & 1984) MK4 Escort (1989) MK2 Granada Based Hearse (seriously) Fiat Uno 60S (1986) Punto 60S (1998) Cinq (1997) 1998 Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat 2003 Ford KA
Current: 2004 Ford Focus (barely alive)
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Mar 28, 2011 14:41:04 GMT
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don't buy a really powerfull MIG unless you can turn it down low, more powerfull is not always better. ain't this the truth, I have a SIP Migmate 150T and it doesn't seem to go low enough and forever blowing holes (ok might be my technique, but all the time??) i am seriously considering moving it on to buy something with an adjustable power dial rather than 3 switches! So my advice is get one with a dial! Oh and the auto darkening mask's are an absolute godsend!
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Beginners welding equipmentBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Mar 28, 2011 16:04:08 GMT
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I've got a Clarke 105EN Turbo which I bought 2nd hand from this forum. It's not as powerful as the old SIP, but performs well on thin bodywork steel and copes fine with plating chassis rails too. I wouldn't fancy getting anything less powerful than that (there aren't many less powerful really!), as I felt it was near its limit doing the chassis plating.
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speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member
"Nice Cortina mate"
Posts: 2,296
Club RR Member Number: 118
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Beginners welding equipmentspeedy88
@speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member 118
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Mar 28, 2011 16:05:59 GMT
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Clarke 90 pro, cost me £100 and with 10 minutes practice I did some MOT passable welds on the 340
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Mar 28, 2011 16:34:35 GMT
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don't buy a really powerfull MIG unless you can turn it down low, more powerfull is not always better. ain't this the truth, I have a SIP Migmate 150T and it doesn't seem to go low enough and forever blowing holes (ok might be my technique, but all the time??) I am seriously considering moving it on to buy something with an adjustable power dial rather than 3 switches! So my advice is get one with a dial! Oh and the auto darkening mask's are an absolute godsend! Years ago, I had a SIP Migmate 150 Turbo with power setting switches like that and to be honest it was a pretty awful welder. It seemed to be very tempramental. Most migs that are small and reasonably portable will weld bodywork just fine. A lot of it is down to the wire used. If you're running 1mm wire then you won't be able to drop the power much but 0.6 is no problem.
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1962 Datsun Bluebird Estate - 1971 Datsun 510 SSS - 1976 Datsun 710 SSS - 1981 Dodge van - 1985 Nissan Cherry Europe GTi - 1988 Nissan Prairie - 1990 Hyundai Pony Pickup - 1992 Mazda MX5
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Mar 28, 2011 17:50:19 GMT
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Optimusprimer wrote"Most migs that are small and reasonably portable will weld bodywork just fine. A lot of it is down to the wire used. If you're running 1mm wire then you won't be able to drop the power much but 0.6 is no problem."
I 100% agree - I had previously used 0.8mm wire in my Clarke105EN with a CO2 pub bottle and it blew holes no matter what setting in 20g - Dazcapri & robmoore came over on Saturday, we dropped the wire to 0.6mm and it welds 20g beautifully.
George
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Gray
Part of things
Silence isnt golden!!!
Posts: 742
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Mar 28, 2011 18:05:16 GMT
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I'm going to go against the grain here and say don't learn with an auto darkening screen, its a very common misconception that "pros" use them so they must be good, its rubbish. your screen once you get used to it is a mine of information on heat in and out of the metal, you can gauge penetration, heat and cooling from it. Its impossible to gain as much info from an auto lid, they might be ok for tacs etc but if you learn to use your screen properly it isnt a problem. I always assume the owners of auto darkeners are amatures as they are welding with only half the information available to them and thats key to any weld, the more you can understand and take in the better your results will be. Ever notice real welders have a "nod".... our screens do that to us
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Mar 28, 2011 18:41:12 GMT
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The only pro welder i know uses an auto mask, in fact he gave me his old one when he bought a newun, he runs his own business building race cars so a lot of his welding gets stress tested when they crash em and its also visible so most customers want it to look pretty as well.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Mar 28, 2011 18:41:46 GMT
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I have a BOC contract under their 'Volkszone' deal. I reckon they'd probably still honour it if you call them. Having decent gas bottles makes a huge difference as the flow rate is much more controllable and you won't be worrying about running out every few minutes and spending another £15 on a tiny bottle. its the £75 per year rental i find hard to swallow, which you'll be paying soon, sure if you got plenty of welding work coming in, the rental will pay for itself, however for occasional welders like me it's hard to justify that cost.
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Mar 28, 2011 18:45:10 GMT
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I have a BOC contract under their 'Volkszone' deal. I reckon they'd probably still honour it if you call them. Having decent gas bottles makes a huge difference as the flow rate is much more controllable and you won't be worrying about running out every few minutes and spending another £15 on a tiny bottle. its the £75 per year rental I find hard to swallow, which you'll be paying soon, sure if you got plenty of welding work coming in, the rental will pay for itself, however for occasional welders like me it's hard to justify that cost. I got the deal on VZI too, it was £35 a year if I remember correctly, mine has just been renewed for £35 for another year. might be worth checking VZI to see if it's still on. EDIT - no it's not on any more sadly.
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