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Jun 26, 2019 18:51:33 GMT
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So I did have a rummage and if you want to complete your set of spring seats, I can oblige as I have more than one set but less than two......... Most are 27mm (which are the correct Triumph ones I think) but I also have a few mystery 29mm ones......... I can pop one or two in the post if you PM me your address. As for the other question...... the Mk2 Vitesse head I have in bits has single springs and no seats. It has been apart before by the looks but....... I also have a couple of 2.5 heads. The earlier one has single springs with seats and the later one (219015) has double springs with collars under the inner springs only. This is the opposite of expected...... I’ll have to do some checking. Yes, there is a risk I’ll find the answer in a post I’ve written or at least in a thread I’ve contributed to. I blame my age...... hard drive is full.... or at least badly needs defragging. GT could be be good entertainment, or infuriating dependent on how much skin you had in the game. Very knowledgeable and good company in person, but a wild man on the forums..... Banned nearly everywhere...... Nick Yes please Nick that would be very good of you. I did put a post up on the Norwegian Triumph Club Facebook page but nothing was forthcoming unfortunately. I took a diversion by the workshop on my way home from work today just to check the size of the the ones I have and they are, technically speaking, a smidge over 27mm, I really only need the one, you have PM.
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Ahh well you say that vitesseefi but I have read somewhere, I think it may have been on the Sideways forum many years ago, about the Vitesse not having any of these collars fitted at the factory. I'll see if I can trawl back to that thread again somewhere, you may even have contributed as I remember you were on there too. Edit... Ha! found it, I love the internet. click here "3. original Triumph steel valve spring seats to fit below the Jaguar springs and stop them wandering about on the head. (I still don't understand why Standard-Triumph used valve spring seats on all the other 6 cylinder cars EXCEPT the Vitesse?)" I guess this is easily verified by looking in a parts catalogue, might well only apply to the 1600 Vitesse 6 engine ?? As with most of these threads on Sideways a certain GT was the centre point, he was really good value for money on that forum and on CT forum, never a dull moment. Sadly the Jaguar springs they are banging on about here are also now NLA.
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Last Edit: Jun 25, 2019 6:00:06 GMT by omnipod
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Jun 24, 2019 20:09:25 GMT
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vitesseefi these are the ones for doubles, no? I've decided I'm going single springs, well no choice really seeing as my inner springs are now FUBAR having being compressed by a doulbe set of lower collars and then unknowingly thrashed by me, so I need the other pressed steel type ones. Don't you just love PO's I need one of these... rimmerbros.com/Item--i-105118
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Last Edit: Jun 24, 2019 20:38:50 GMT by omnipod
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Jun 24, 2019 19:51:54 GMT
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So, yes, as it turns out, more bodge. The valve washer mash up was even more of a bodge than it first appears. The picture of the head I removed fom the car shows double valve springs.... with one valve spring missing one of these lower valve spring collars, except that these collars are for single springs set ups - 105118 if you must know ;-) but whoever it was who put this together also used the collars for the double spring set up like this on top of the single valve collars You use one or the other, not both, Not surprised the engine mashed two valve seats So does anybody have one lower valve collar lying around they could whizz in the post to me? Willing to pay of course. They are NLA from Rimmer Bros et al.
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Jun 17, 2019 13:05:00 GMT
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Have you measured the free length of all the springs? could it be someone has used this a bodge for a relaxed spring? Not yet but I guess i will be doing. :-)
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I'd be very much inclined to use the double valve springs to reduce the risk of valve bouncing at high revs. Looking on Chris Witors site I see he has written the following about the single valve spring sets: "We find these springs overkill for their application, and for greater valve train durability recommend CW2906" CW2906 being the doulbe spring sets. So looks like I'll be using those. None the wiser about the washer that has been used though, all the valves and valve seat are identical apart from the knackered ones in the first cylinder obviously, but this washer was on cylinder 5. Doesn't really matter much in the big scheme of things, I'll just build up the spare head with standard parts.
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Last Edit: Jun 17, 2019 8:55:07 GMT by omnipod
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Jun 16, 2019 20:22:47 GMT
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Yeah I did indeed check the valve guides more closely after I wrote my last post and none of the ones that are lower than the rest actually protrude throught the casting and into the port so we are good there. I ordered a head gasket and various other bit's and pieces from the UK a couple of weeks ago but they haven't arrived yet so I have been able to look at this spare head and fully dismantle the old one, the old one will now be used as my EFI throttle body mock up. So while relieving the old head of it's valves I found another oddity, quite a thick washer used as a valve pedestal. Now all the valves and stems look OK so I'm not really sure why this would have been like this unless it is just a plain and simple bodge. Either way the more I look at this now scrap head the less i trust that the bottom end isn't hiding some nasty or other too. The strip down also showed that the old head had double valve springs while the spare head has single, I still don't know what cam is in the engine but I'm guessing it will make minimal difference whether I reuse the single or double springs for a normal road car? Obviously the green Hammerite paint job had to go too, so I degreased and wirebrushed the unmachined surfaces, masked it up and gave it some paint, looks a bit purpley here but it is black. Still got to clean up the top of the block, clean up the rocker gear, making sure the oilways are clear and lapp in the valves, so work to do yet. I did consider getting the head skimmed but unfortunately with the 'local' engine shops being a four hour round trip either East or West from here and both having backlogs of work meaning they couldn't get to mine immediately then I have decided to just use the top unskimmed for now just to get the car back on the road. I only have HS4s and getting hold of a set of HS6s with the correct manifold over here would be a miracle, I could import some but cost is also a factor here as I am planning on EFI eventually and I already have a set of PI manifolds for this purpose. I do have a GT6 twin down pipe manifold though. Have to sse how much time I'll get to work on with this during the week.
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Last Edit: Jun 16, 2019 20:27:19 GMT by omnipod
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It's sort of a good thing you have had a problem as it least you know what engine you have in the car now ! My 2000 didn't go too badly in standard form even with a burnt valve. I made the mistake of buying a complete rebuilt head from Rimmers only to find all of the valve stems were cracked. It smoked worse than it did with the original head on it ! A friend had a PI so I went the 2.5 engine route. I got hold of a recently re-bored S engine and had the head rebuilt through one of Chris Witors contacts and fitted a better cam which he said would give similar performance to a PI without the injection setup. You might find you are missing some power if the correct carbs and manifold and distributor haven't been fitted but sorting the head should improve things a lot. I fitted the S carbs and manifold but wasn't sure which distributor was best. The car felt faster with the S spec distributor fitted but was smoother with a PI spec one but fitted with a vacuum adavance. I'm not sure now which diff I fitted. It had a 3.7 auto diff as the car was originally an auto but the biggest gain on going to the 2.5 is the torque. I think I had planned on fitting a 3.45 one but not sure if I did it now ! Yes! I kind of agree, not knowing what capacity the engine actually was was in fact starting to prey on my mind a bit, it also means that I'll now 'have to' take the cam out to see what it is too, unless it's possible to see the number by just taking out the cam followers? This is exactly what I mean about Rimmers, you just never know what you are going to get. I have a few distributors but the plan is to go EFI with Speeduino so the timing and advance I should be able sort one way or another. Yeah, I need to check the diff too, I think i have it noted down somewhere. So next job is to clean up the spare head, it came with the car disassembled and without any note of which valves, pushrods or followers went where. I'll just have to make it up. Looking a bit down at heel but it should clean up OK, just a bit odd / worrying that the valve guides are pushed in to different depths.
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Last Edit: Jun 1, 2019 17:16:55 GMT by omnipod
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May 31, 2019 12:31:48 GMT
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Rimmer Bros in the UK should do Triumph stuff? They do, and their international shipping is second to none but are the ones they sell any good, some of thier stuff is cr@p
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I really want this car back on the road and am not looking for power increases at the moment so I'm considering just cleaning up the head, lapping the valves, putting it all together and seeing what happens. I can get it skimmed in the winter if it needs it. I see the advantages of increasing the compression ratio a bit but I think that can wait. But... looking at the the tech info on Witor's site I see this for the 219016 head..... casting number 313248 Mine looks like casting number 313247 do you know if there are any differences from the 313248 casting vitesseefi ? Where to buy a decent head gasket? anywhere else besides Witor?
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Last Edit: May 31, 2019 10:10:38 GMT by omnipod
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May 30, 2019 19:13:35 GMT
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So i took a trip to the workshop today as it is a bank hoilday here in the land of brown cheese, and all I can say is: Never ASSUME… it makes an ASS out of U and ME.... Unless my eyes are decieving me, you were sooooooo right vitesseefi just look at this.. If I'm not mistaken that gives me 2498cc - well actually a tiny bit more since my pistons are +.030 but hey, happy days. The block is from a 2 litre, some sly fox has changed the crankshaft. I hate the person who built this engine a little bit less. U know ME, the ASS in assume. So what now? I have inspected cylinder 1 bore and astoundingly it appears undamaged, I'm happy to give it another go. I have a spare head that I thought wouldn't work with my block but now it should slap straight on ? This is the thickness of the spare head... This is the thickness of the previous head that went pop... But this also begs the question what cam is in there? Maybe I should whip the cam out too while I have the head off? Just a matter of removing followers, the timing chain and cover? I also need to check the pushrod lengths too. It might also be prudent to consider sending the head off to a specialist to get it cleaned up, crack tested and skimmmed. I will initially be running SU HS4's but the goal is EFI so what would be the optimum head thickness to aim for? So work to do but things suddenly aren't looking so glum, I can avoid buying another unknown engine and save myself the hassle of getting the block out and then in again. Better the devil you know at this point I think.
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Last Edit: May 30, 2019 20:55:27 GMT by omnipod
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Just to add, when inspecting a used Triumph engine (running condition or not), it is important to check the the crankshaft endfloat as it is not unknown for them to drop thrust washers, causing damage to crank and block. Grab hold of the flywheel or front pulley and push/pull along the the crank axis. A small amount of "clonk" is acceptable - book figure is something like 0.006" - 0.010", but up to around double that is acceptable on a used engine, though much over 0.010" suggests dropping the sump and fitting new thrust washers would be wise. Movement in millimetres is not ok as it indicates the washers have worn to the point that they have dropped out. The engine can still run quite sweetly like this but may make nasty noises when the clutch is depressed and clutch action may be odd. Repair may be possible - it depends how long the engine has been run like that - but you are taking a risk so it should be cheap! Happy hunting! Nick All good info, thanks. Unfortunatley the words Norway and cheap are very rarely, if ever, heard in the same sentence. Price might well be a stumbling block here.
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May 29, 2019 19:55:52 GMT
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These cars do go better with a 2.5, but then 3.45:1 diff is needed...... It is possible to get them to go well with a 2L but more effort (and expense) needed on the engine. FWIW, all the earlier heads are big valve. They reduced the exhaust valve size later on to reduce the cracking risk. Good luck with the “new” engine....... Thanks, beggers can't be choosers and all that, 2.5 litre Triumph engines don't exactly grow on trees over here, one came up for sale about 2 hours away from me (that is local in Norwegian terms) a few weeks ago, first one i've seen for a couple of years at least, it spiked my interest then, little did I know that I might actually need it myself. Seems legit, have spoken to the seller, MM engine code with 219016 head and the correct 45D6 distributor, really can't be any worse than what I had. Has been used in a small chassis Triumph so it has a GT6 / Vitesse overdrive box on it but I can probably sell that on without too much problem. Of course this means putting a front plate on for the engine mounts and a few other jobs but hey that's where the fun is, right? Yeah, best go and check which diff I have, do you know what numbers i'm looking for? Do you know how much an engine and gearbox weigh?
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Last Edit: May 29, 2019 20:15:21 GMT by omnipod
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May 29, 2019 13:31:52 GMT
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vitesseefi don't get me started on this engine, I hate the person who 'built' this engine. I know you have told me about the stroke before, I have a golden opportunity to measure that now. Yes if it is a 2.5 engine then the top would be OK, but this is what I think it is: 2000 block with flat top +.030 pistons - ML547HEA 2000 or PI 'big valve' head 218225, yes looking very much like scrap At least i now know why i've always been underwhelmed by the cars performance Don't be fooled by the crank pulley I used my spare one to mount the 36-1 trigger wheel on, it comes from a 2.5 I might have found a spare running 2.5 engine not too far away from me, I'm working on it :-)
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May 29, 2019 11:18:03 GMT
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well, out the exhaust obviously, but yeah its a miracle to do it so cleanly i cant see why its got 0 compression though? the seats are in bad shape, but not enough to cause cylinder seal failure ? Maybe the pictures don't do it justice there is no valve seat of any kind in the exhaust port. just a flat circular hole LOL I did pour some petrol into the combustion chambers in the head while it was upsidedown on the bench and it ran straight past both valves in cylinder 1.
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So I drove the car for a couple of months last year (the insurance is limited from 15th april to 15th October). The 16th October i took it off the road and over the winter I added a TR6 exhaust manifold, a 36-1 trigger wheel on the crank pulley and an electric fan since there was now no room for the crank mounted one. April comes around and I'm back on the road but still not happy with how it was running. As has been described before in ths thread the engine appears to be put together from at leat 3 different ones, so I set a goal that I would drive 1000km in May and tweak and adjust things alomg the way until I was more satisfied with the driving experience. I changed the needles in the SU carburettors to ones suited to the engine block number and adjusted the timing road testing :-) In the end it still wasn't perfect but it was better, until it suddenly really wasn't better, but really much much worse. Driving along at 80kmh, a bang, a terrible scraping noise and a noticeable loss of power. I managed to pull off at the next turn and the motor died. Hopped out expecting to find some kind of cataclysmic oil - coolant - metal debis strew road but no, nothing. The car started again with a little persuasion, with no scraping sound but needed revs to keep it going, no way was it going to idle. It didn't sound healthy. Managed to coax it the 2km or so home, parked it in the garage shut the door and went to bed. Gah. Asshats. Next morning compression test showed 0psi (yes zero) in cylinder 1. Fark. So got it flatbedded to the workshop for some serious investigation, only thing to do was whip the cylinder head off. This is what I found... Sooooo, broken valve guide, serious lack of valve seats in cylinder 1, pitted combustion chamber but quite amazingly no damage to the valves, pistons or bore??! Not really any idea what has gone on here but getting a look inside an engine reveals a lot. Pistons are flat top and +.030 - Ok that it has had a slight rebore but they have used the wrong pistons for the head, they should be dome topped pistons for a 2 liter block. Seems like they also had valve inserts installed but obviously not very well. But where has the valve seat gone and how did it disappear without leaving it's mark on the pistons, valves or bores? Probably never know the answer to that but the upshot is I need to find a replacement engine.
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Last Edit: May 29, 2019 8:57:16 GMT by omnipod
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May 21, 2019 19:48:38 GMT
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Apr 29, 2019 13:34:34 GMT
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Last Edit: Apr 29, 2019 13:41:06 GMT by omnipod
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Apr 29, 2019 12:33:38 GMT
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Hard to tell, but I don't think it is. Packard timer seems like a good call but i can only find 2 or 3 way just like has been said. Could somebody ask on a VAG forum for me? I'm not a member of any of them.
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Apr 27, 2019 11:34:39 GMT
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Nope, it isn't a junior power timer connector, that is what i bought, I have one here and it doesn't fit.
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