Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 17:52:35 GMT
|
Hi, i just needed some help with my mini engine; I'm gonna have the engine out soon for a full rebuild, and while its out I'm going to do the oil pump and bits like that. On the minisport site, it says the 850 oil pump is 'peg drive' rather than slot drive. I was looking at some cam kits, and i called them and they said that the 998 cam would fit. All the cam kits come in either 'peg drive' or 'slot drive' - has this got anything to do with the oil pump, which is 'peg drive'? The cam i was looking at was the road/rally ST731. Next, manifolds. from what i've read, the cooper freeflow ones give better low end than the LCB's, but the LCB's are good for top end - Would the difference be noticable between these two on an 850 with the road/rally cam? I think i may just go for a half stage 1 kit and the cam (with the half stage one kit i can use the backbox i want ) Cheers
|
|
|
|
|
rysz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,554
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 17:53:42 GMT
|
Have you got the Vizard A Series book?
Should have an awful lot of resource for this kind of rebuild!
Rysz.
|
|
|
|
craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,993
Club RR Member Number: 35
|
A-series tuningcraig1010cc
@craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member 35
|
Dec 16, 2010 18:06:16 GMT
|
When you are buying a new cam for an A series, then you should get a new oil pump as its got to come out to fit it and then you can buy them as a pair (and it makes no difference if you want the peg or slot drive, see which they have in stock).
Cam choice, for a fast road mini (espec if your not doing the head) I would be looking at a Swift tune SW5 or a Kent 256.
Manifold wise, I would go for a freeflow cooper, fits and seals so much better, you get slightly more torque and I even used mine on a 90bhp 1275.
The other thing to look at is the head. The 850 head is very restrictive, if you can't afford a 998 cooper head, then try and find the head from a 1100. It will need skimming (like the cooper head), but it is better than a stock 998 head
hope that helps a bit
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 18:19:37 GMT
|
id go for a full stage 1 kit mate with a freeflow manifold id stay away from lcb's un less you go 1275 with just a good stage 1 kit you should see a big difference and cam wise swifttune sw5 or kent 266 and get your self a good 12g295 head in to the equation and you should have a fun and driveable little a-series all on a budget of around ÂŁ400-500 or get your self a good 1275 for about the same with a stage 1 kit and get more power and more options for the future !!!!!
|
|
1978 mk2 escort mexico
|
|
Gilesy
Part of things
Posts: 229
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 18:27:51 GMT
|
To start tuning an A series, the first thing I'd suggest is to increase the capacity. By hanging on to an 850 you're really restricting your options. 998s are ten a penny, will give far better results, and your insurance company really shouldn't mind. On any tuned "small bore", the Cooper freeflow is far better suited to the application than an LCB, as you're simply not moving enough gas to trouble it's ability. Also, it's easier to seal and quieter than an LCB. Don't buy cheap exhaust manifolds - there are some VERY poor ones out there, and Maniflow really aren't that expensive. Also, have a look down the pipe of the backbox you want so you can see inside the "can". If it's a perforated straight through tube, then rock on. If it's a perforate tube crimped at one end and another of the same leading to the tailpipe, don't spend any money on tuning the engine, it's a waste of time as the exhaust will be plugging the system up. The 998 Cooper head (12G206/295) is a very good head, but has huge chambers and needs a hefty skim (~0.080") to get the compression up. The standard head thickness is 2.75" iirc, so measure any you look at so you know whether to skim it or not. Beware of over-skimmed heads - it's common for people to take too much off 295s and break into the waterways. Another option is to use a common, cheap and even better 1275 head (12g940) and either recess the exhaust valves 0.040", or have the block deck pocketed to clear the valves. The latter is the only real option if you use a high-lift camshaft. Lastly, camshaft choice is pivotal, as it dictates the necessary compression ratio, amongst other things. Bear in mind that the SW5 whilst extremely good, is also very tame, and best suited to lazy, tractable big-bore engines. Everything's over by about 5500rpm, and a by their smooth nature, tuned small-bores love to rev (though not 1098s - revs kill 'em!). As is always the way - your car, your choice, but make Vizard's yellow bible your first upgrade, speak to people running tuned small-bores for advice, and make educated purchases rather than buying cheap or because "bigger is better".
|
|
Last Edit: Dec 16, 2010 18:29:16 GMT by Gilesy
1991 Mini Neon - Gone 1991 Polo Coupe - Gone 1987 Scirocco Scala - Gone 1991 Scirocco GTII - Gone 1980 Mini 1000 - Gone 1998 Fiesta - in flux 1999 Saab 9-5 2.3t SE - the tidy, blown Swedish modern
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 18:41:25 GMT
|
another thing worth thinking about is your brakes I'm guessing if your minis got a 850 then its still running drums all round and there curse word at the best of times so with great power better brakes are a must !!
|
|
1978 mk2 escort mexico
|
|
Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 18:53:25 GMT
|
Hmm, the problem is that the budget for the whole car is just over a grand, so ÂŁ400-500 on the engine really isnt gonna happen unfortunately. The only money for this project is coming from selling my motocross bike (no luck so far ) Bearing in mind my budget, would i be better off with a stage 1 kit and just giving the engine a decent rebuild and service? Oh, tarmacadam - The brakes are definately gonna be looked at, perhaps some cooper discs uo front. All depends on what moneys left after the rest of the build ;/
|
|
|
|
Gilesy
Part of things
Posts: 229
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 18:59:23 GMT
|
You could build a good 998 with 1275 head for a couple of hundred quid, add as much again for a s/h camshaft and stage1 kit.
|
|
1991 Mini Neon - Gone 1991 Polo Coupe - Gone 1987 Scirocco Scala - Gone 1991 Scirocco GTII - Gone 1980 Mini 1000 - Gone 1998 Fiesta - in flux 1999 Saab 9-5 2.3t SE - the tidy, blown Swedish modern
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 19:00:12 GMT
|
The yellow bible (Vizard) is essential.
While the cam is matched with the oil pump, you must not forget that a 850 hasn't got any cam bearings. So you cannot install a 731 cam, because it cause too much wear. You could offcourse fit bearings in it, but otherwise you pretty much stuck to the 510 profile or the SW5., let's say up to 250 degrees.
An interesting option is to keep the crank and put in a 998 block, you get a pretty square (bore/stoke) engine (976cc?) which will rev, provide you can pump enough mixture in it.
There is plenty of meat in the stock head is pretty poor, but simple modifcations to the combustion chamber and ports make it a lot better (not as good as a cooper or 12G940 head though).
|
|
Click picture for more
|
|
Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 19:04:32 GMT
|
So, like you said i could put my crank in a 998 block, and then have a 998 head with cam bearings?
|
|
|
|
|
Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 19:07:55 GMT
|
|
|
Last Edit: Dec 16, 2010 19:08:11 GMT by Fungus
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 19:13:58 GMT
|
Have you got the Vizard A Series book? Should have an awful lot of resource for this kind of rebuild! Rysz. word !
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 21:39:44 GMT
|
So, like you said I could put my crank in a 998 block, and then have a 998 head with cam bearings? Eeuuh, cam is in the block. It's OHV not OHC. But you could also put a BMW k100 head on it ;D
|
|
Click picture for more
|
|
Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 21:42:21 GMT
|
Hehehehe, fair do's ;D What do you think of the link, will it work?
|
|
|
|
Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
|
A-series tuningDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
|
Dec 16, 2010 22:50:19 GMT
|
Stage 1 kit is a must for anything you do. The standard intake and exhaust systems strangle the poor little A series. A stage 1 kit can realease up to 20% more power once you've got the carb jetted and set up right
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 22:58:22 GMT
|
An interesting option is to keep the crank and put in a 998 block, you get a pretty square (bore/stoke) engine (976cc?) which will rev, provide you can pump enough mixture in it. This is neither easy nor cheap to do Finding pistons being the first problem. If more power on a budget is your only wish, stick in a 998 or 1098. They'r cheap as chips, bomb proof and quite nippy little engines. Not as smoth as a 850, but more powerfull. And economical too. from 1980-ish on A+ 998s had 42BHP, 1100 had 45BHP in stock configuration. Though a 1100 is a ultra-long stroke and doesn't like the revs a 998 loves. Anyway; sort out the bodywork & runing gear first! More power is only a ''nice to have''. But wasted if the engine drops on the floor through the rotten bodywork ;D HTH Jan
|
|
|
|
Davenger
Club Retro Rides Member
It's only metal
Posts: 7,272
Club RR Member Number: 140
|
A-series tuningDavenger
@dminifreak
Club Retro Rides Member 140
|
Dec 16, 2010 23:04:16 GMT
|
How would finding 998 pistons be difficult?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 23:18:06 GMT
|
998 - not at all. But ones with 850 compression height & 998 bore or larger And if my memory serves me right, there's quite a difference between 850 & 998 cranks in terms of bearing width & sizes.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 23:26:25 GMT
|
|
|
Click picture for more
|
|
|
|
Dec 16, 2010 23:27:42 GMT
|
Leave the engine as is until the car is on the road and you're happy with the bodywork and so forth. One of the greatest joys of engine tuning is feeling the improvement in performance which it makes. If you have never driven the car with the old, slow engine then you will never get to truly feel the appreciation for what your improvements do.
Then, once you have the car on the road and are used to the power, I would buy a bigger engine completely separately, at least a 998cc but you may as well go the whole hog and start with a 1275cc. Then, you can put that in a shed and build it up at your leisure whilst the other engine is still going, and then swap them over when it's ready. This gives you plenty of time to save up a decent budget for the new engine, and you will be much happier with the result after having driven the car with the old 850 in.
As an example of this, I bought my first Beetle with a very tired 1500cc single-port engine in it and drove it for a year or two. Then, I upgraded to a stock 1600cc twin-port. It's still not a fast car, so if I had started off with the twin-port I may not have been very impressed, but the difference is quite noticeable and it's a very welcome improvement over the old engine, so I was happy with it. The joy of being able to go up a certain hill in a higher gear and without using full throttle is something which you can only experience in comparison to the older, slower engine.
|
|
|
|
|