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Right this might seem a bit random and stupid, but I kinda got thinking about this ages ago while looking at some of Bruces Delica rims. I thought about getting some old Shogun/Landcruiser split rim alloys removing the centers and getting my own made, iirc Bruce and Grunty both suggested simply machining out the very center of the face and getting a new plated welded in with whatever PCD you like so you'd have some fairly wide unique wheels......... don't get what I mean see below....... These kinda wheels and do this....... Right my question is, obviously this was a bit of a pie in the sky idea originally but the more I think about it the more I fancy doing it. Plus anyone seen the prices of 4x108 split rims? ? Am I being stupid or is this a cool idea?
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Last Edit: Aug 2, 2010 17:16:12 GMT by Robinxr4i
Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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rtlkyuubi
Posted a lot
Low and Slow
Posts: 2,922
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would the massive difference in pcd make it easier to get some adaptors made up? will save on all the effort needed to make sure that the new welded sections are perfectly straight.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,841
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Just make some uber Area 52 10mm hub adaptors be lots cheaper and easier.
Matt
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I'm for adapters too. Lining them up so they sit perfectly on two different planes is going to be a nightmare, and unless you can do it, you're going to have to search out an alloy welder who will actually do it, and i wouldn't put high hopes on many agreeing.
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Sounds like a sensible enough idea, would look much better than adaptors too - 4x4 wheels have a huge centre bore which you would have to disguise if you ran them with adaptors.
Sholud be fairly straight forward to get done and I wouldn't imagine hugely expensive, going by work I've had done by my local ally welding place.
Also it would be an easy way to get some seriously wide monster offset rims on your motor!
Joe
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can you weld ally that thick or will you have to pay to get it done? it may work out cheaper just buying wheels that fit.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,990
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I saw in a mag, PPC possibly, they had plugs made and pressed into existing holes, then welded over and machined flat. then they drilled the PCD they wanted and it looked brilliant, couldnt tell what had been done.
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The reason I suggested machining out the centre and welding in a new one is because the centre bore on most 4x4 is 108mm!! (PCD 139.7)
As Joe76 says, fitting adaptors will look silly.
Shouldn't be difficult to have done - machining the new centres is dead easy, lathe out the old ones and if the work is done by a decent machinist the rims and new centres should be a perfect fit so no centring issues. Have bevels machined into the edges of the new centre and the wheel (front and back) to give somewhere for the weld to fill.
Getting them to run true is simply a case of setting up on anything rotary (a lathe or even the car itself) and slowly spinning the wheel against a datum/guide to true it up and tacking as you go before seam welding it. Machining back takes nothing. Job done.
All in all a simple way to create a unique set of wheels and 4x4 split rims are a LOT cheaper than conventional car splitties so by the time you factor in the machining, you'll still be getting a cheaper set of 3pc wheels and a set of one-off's to boot.
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I saw in a mag, PPC possibly, they had plugs made and pressed into existing holes, then welded over and machined flat. then they drilled the PCD they wanted and it looked brilliant, couldnt tell what had been done. I did think about that but the PCD on the shogun wheels is something like 6x130 with a huge center bore, so I'm not sure if 4x108 would fit inside Anyway I think spacers would be a good idea, although what the best way to go about fabricating them? have anyone got a guide?
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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all sounds good to me... another way.. and think it would e the way I would do it? would be to make up a similar thing to an adapter.. but not as thick.. maybe 15/20mm? but would be more like a center bore adapter.. I/D would be the size of what ever the wheel would end up fitting to??and the O/D would be the same as the 4x4 center bore.. then have the over all diameter of the adapter big enough to cover the 6 stud holes of the wheel. you with me so fare?! then weld this to the rim.. using the old bolt holes as plugs.. i,e. weld them up.. nice weld around the back to.. then use the hub from what ever there going to be fitted to as a gig to drill ne holes.. all being well if the machining has been adapter has been made right.. it should hold the wheel true to the hub... then drill away.. jobs a good un!!! does all this sound right? p.s. if some one understand what I'm trying to say.. but could say it better.. please do!
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Last Edit: Aug 2, 2010 19:49:14 GMT by petetong
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The reason I suggested machining out the centre and welding in a new one is because the centre bore on most 4x4 is 108mm!! (PCD 139.7) As Joe76 says, fitting adaptors will look silly. Shouldn't be difficult to have done - machining the new centres is dead easy, lathe out the old ones and if the work is done by a decent machinist the rims and new centres should be a perfect fit so no centring issues. Have bevels machined into the edges of the new centre and the wheel (front and back) to give somewhere for the weld to fill. Getting them to run true is simply a case of setting up on anything rotary (a lathe or even the car itself) and slowly spinning the wheel against a datum/guide to true it up and tacking as you go before seam welding it. Machining back takes nothing. Job done. All in all a simple way to create a unique set of wheels and 4x4 split rims are a LOT cheaper than conventional car splitties so by the time you factor in the machining, you'll still be getting a cheaper set of 3pc wheels and a set of one-off's to boot. I doubt that this would really be that cheap. Have you priced it? For the first thing, you will have to find a reputable fabrication shop to do the work, and then one of those that will take the work on (for various reasons many wont). Then, as you well know, they have to get every cut right - 2mm out with throw the whole wheel out of true, and if it's been welded by then, it will have to be cut back to rectify it. Not to mention that it will then all need alloy welded, and very well at that, then ground back and finished. It isn't a quick job, and it will be expensive to be right, or cheap and badly done. Of course, getting it done right would be the perfect option, but unless Robin can Tig weld and has a lathe, I can't see any way that this can be satisfactorily done cheaply. I certainly wouldn't run a wheel made like this from a low quality shop, and I'm a bodger and a cheapskate. I did think about that but the PCD on the shogun wheels is something like 6x130 with a huge center bore, so I'm not sure if 4x108 would fit inside Anyway I think spacers would be a good idea, although what the best way to go about fabricating them? have anyone got a guide? You're just right, as MM said the centre bore of most big 4x4s (certainly the Mitsubishi offerings you mentioned) are 108, which would give you nothing to work with except air... all sounds good to me... another way.. and think it would e the way I would do it? would be to make up a similar thing to an adapter.. but not as thick.. maybe 15/20mm? but would be more like a center bore adapter.. I/D would be the size of what ever the wheel would end up fitting to??and the O/D would be the same as the 4x4 center bore.. then have the over all diameter of the adapter big enough to cover the 6 stud holes of the wheel. you with me so fare?! then weld this to the rim.. using the old bolt holes as plugs.. i,e. weld them up.. nice weld around the back to.. then use the hub from what ever there going to be fitted to as a gig to drill ne holes.. all being well if the machining has been adapter has been made right.. it should hold the wheel true to the hub... then drill away.. jobs a good un!!! does all this sound right? p.s. if some one understand what I'm trying to say.. but could say it better.. please do! I think (maybe?) I get what you're suggesting... An adapter plate made up, but instead of bolts through the 4x4 wheel, it's welded in place instead? You could use the bolts to line it up first and weld with it centralised... Oh and one last point, if you did go with adapters, it wouldn't look silly at all, because like most wheels, 4x4 rims can have centre caps too
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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This idea intrests me alot i will have to look into it further I think
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POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz 1997 Saab 93 convertible 2010 transit 280
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markbognor
South East
Posts: 9,969
Club RR Member Number: 56
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Could you get some blank centres made up, drilled to 4x108. They would look a lot like SSR MK1s.
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Could you get some blank centres made up, drilled to 4x108. They would look a lot like SSR MK1s. That was my original idea mark! I remember seeing a guy in Australia did exactly that he had some 3 piece splits, he binned the centres and made his own. Looked mint just like the SSR rims!
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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Mark you know what I'm talking about these are the secs!
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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V-Force
Part of things
I like Hondas.
Posts: 846
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1999 Impreza WRX typeR STI Version 5 Limited 1999 Civic VTi-S Aerodeck 2005 Bora TDI daily
Several other 90s Hondas (shhh they're sleeping)
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Theres always loads on ebay UK, we bought 4 of these with half worn tyres on for 200 quid, cheap enough i thought, you could probably get half that back if you sold the tyres on.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Theres always loads on ebay UK, we bought 4 of these with half worn tyres on for 200 quid, cheap enough I thought, you could probably get half that back if you sold the tyres on. Are the wheels above fake splits, 2 pc or 3 pc wheels?
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Sierra - here we go again! He has an illness, it's not his fault.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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Perfectly possible to do and easy enough if you have a decent and BIG gap bed lathe.
If you had a lathe big enough to grab the wheel it's be an easy job but lathes that big exist only in my deams and industrial factories.
I'd centre it on a mill then cut the centre out true with an offset boring head, then turn an ally plate with a centre hole and a step to fit perfectly in the hole i've bored in the wheel, drill the correct PCD in the plate with a rotary table in the mill, then fit the two together (the machined step will ensure they fit perfectly, then weld up and your done...
repeat x 4 simples, don't listen to the naysayer who says it cant be done ANY competent engineering shop can do this sort of work piece of pi$$, I reckon you'd be looking at £3-500 to get it done though, before we closed down our machine shop I'd certainly have been looking at a quote in that ball park, good couple of days work there..
****EDIT**** I'd have only used this method to do a billet wheel centre, I wouldn't fancy welding a cast centre... personally, I have very little experience of structural welding on cast ally... though I'm sure many better alloy welders would, tbh at the moment I'd have got a mate to do the ally welding even on billet anway as I'm badly out of practice..
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Last Edit: Aug 3, 2010 21:38:05 GMT by 10mpg
The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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repeat x 4 simples, don't listen to the naysayer who says it cant be done ANY competent engineering shop can do this sort of work piece of pi$$, I reckon you'd be looking at £3-500 to get it done though, before we closed down our machine shop I'd certainly have been looking at a quote in that ball park, good couple of days work there.. There isn't a single person here that has said this can't be done...
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