Potter
Part of things
'E who dares wins,eh Rodders??!
Posts: 304
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Jan 16, 2010 17:03:08 GMT
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Hi lads. Been looking for a pair of 48 Webers for my drag racing 2 l Pinto'd Escort for ages but haven't been able to find a reasonably priced pair.They all seem to cost 700 quid on the Bay! Was looking through old Readers Rides posts and came across a white Polo with bike carbs and it got me thinking.A quick search of the Bay revealed them to be going very cheap compared to the Webers so. . . . . would they be suitable for such an engine? (Strictly racing only engine.) Are they difficult to set up?Which carbs should I be looking for? And do you have some for sale? ;D Thanks mightily Thats the Escort in question by the way,back in it's day. Gonna look a bit different when it hits the strip with me at the wheel! Tom
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More cars than sense or money!🙄
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Jan 16, 2010 17:09:55 GMT
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Probably, what kind of output are you looking for from the engine?
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,988
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Jan 16, 2010 17:21:41 GMT
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you won't get as much power from the bike carbs than you will from the webers. bike carbs are difficult to set up correctly once messed with. best off going fuel injection using bike throttle bodies
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Potter
Part of things
'E who dares wins,eh Rodders??!
Posts: 304
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Jan 17, 2010 13:57:53 GMT
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Not really sure about power Imp. Say 180-200 brake?
Why's that Kee? Are the bike carbs too small or something?Bogg Brothers are putting them onto 1.8 Zetecs,2 litres ain't that far off. I don't think the throttle bodies would work out cheaper than the Webers though,which is ultimately what I want. I'd still need an ECU right? Might MegaSquirt be a thought?
Cheers for the help by the way.
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More cars than sense or money!🙄
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milko
Part of things
Posts: 164
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Jan 17, 2010 14:14:22 GMT
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I've seen bike carbs on V8's and all sorts so they'll do your pinto fine, prob need carbs off a 900/1000cc bike such as R1's which is what Bogg Bros normally use but you can use any, just need to fab a manifold. Boggy's charge around £285 to build a manifold and clean and re-jet your carbs to suit then about £100 to setup on a rolling road. I had R1 carbs on a 2l XE lump and currently have R6 carbs on my 1.6 Polo. Loads of info on the net on them if ya look about. This link told me most things I needed to know.. www.totalvauxhall.co.uk/resources/totalvauxhall/TOV64.tech60697.pdfGood luck.
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Last Edit: Jan 17, 2010 14:17:55 GMT by milko
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Jan 17, 2010 14:17:45 GMT
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I would think that to support a power level of 200hp on bike carbs, you would want something which was originally rated to produce nearly that much. I'm not sure that there are many bikes which would fit the bill, as far as I know. I'm not a bike person, so I am ready to be corrected, but I would've thought that almost all bikes over 140hp have EFI, and therefore you would be getting throttle bodies from them and needing to set up a Megasquirt to run it.
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milko
Part of things
Posts: 164
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Jan 17, 2010 14:20:16 GMT
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My XE made 180bhp on R1 carbs and you can re jet em easy for more fuel, its the choke size thats the limiter... theres always 1300 Hyabusa carbs..
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povey
Part of things
Posts: 700
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Jan 17, 2010 22:50:24 GMT
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Lot of good info here people i been thinking about hem for my cortina if it don't sell!!
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,988
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if you speak to any engine builder you'll see where I'm coming from, stick with webers
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`state
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,215
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webers are a waste of time compared to r1 carbs.Webers will need more looking after and retuning more often than not.a set of properly set up bike carbs will give you the same performance,ask anyone thats actually done it. Get a set of r1 carbs and have them properly setup on a rolling road.Bogg bros redrill the jets and alter the needles if needed.You wont have to touch them again. Ive just swopped from r1 carbs to gsxr bodies due to wanting to ditch the dizzy but I never had any problems with the carbs and made 179 bhp on a std knackered xe. You`ll also find them more drivable through the rev range unlike the on-off power of webers.Most engine builders will tell you to get webers cos they don't know how to tune the bike carbs and all they care about is peak power.
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Last Edit: Jan 18, 2010 9:47:09 GMT by `state
Look at all the plastic people who live without a care.Try to sit with me around my table,but never bring a chair.
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Jan 18, 2010 10:15:28 GMT
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I have to agree with MrManta, I'm sure that old skool engine builders would say stick with webers, but I can't think of any reason why.
Certain bike carbs flow enough air for 180bhp so why not use them? They are built for OEM applications on bikes that have to be reliable or people would have not bought them!
Most bike carbs are of the constant velocity veriaty, making fuelling more consistant and no need to pump jets etc, that hardest part to get right on a weber, infact I don't think I have ever been in a weber'ed car that accls smoothly!
J
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,988
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Jan 18, 2010 12:01:16 GMT
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i'm not talking from experience. I had a conversation with a chap who runs a rolling road and he said he regularly tunes up racers cars (who come back year after year). they went to bike carbs but returned to webers.
I guess its more to do with people know webers a lot more than bike carbs as bike carbs are only just being used.
dunno if they can flow enough on a big power pinto though.
On the plus side, if you get a 2nd hand setup then you'll sell it for what you bought it for if you don't like it, maybe even more, if you find bike carbs aren't for you. Make sure you use a good ignition management though otherwise on something like your car it'll be useless.
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Jolfa
Part of things
Rich@SBP
Posts: 199
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Jan 18, 2010 12:48:55 GMT
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My 6a in my Golf made 170bhp on ZX9R's, mates XE in his Nova made 201bhp on R1's, so they're not restrictive or anything despite the bike engine being considerably smaller!
The only reason I can think they're not as good as Webers, is that Webers are flange fit so you don't get vacuum leak problems. I know a few people who've gone from Webers to bike carbs and they rave about how much of an all round improvement it is! And for the difference in price you'd have to have money to burn to go for the Webers...
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If it aint broke, fix it 'til it is.
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,988
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Jan 18, 2010 13:06:07 GMT
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bike carbs would be more beneficial on a road car. If you can find any dedicated track/drag car with bike carbs on i'd find out what they say.
if you want responsiveness, better driveability then throttle bodies are the way to go, much better than carbs
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Jolfa
Part of things
Rich@SBP
Posts: 199
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Jan 18, 2010 13:11:13 GMT
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you want responsiveness, better driveability then throttle bodies are the way to go, much better than carbs Well obviously, that's why they cost 10x as much
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If it aint broke, fix it 'til it is.
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kee
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,988
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Jan 18, 2010 13:33:16 GMT
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not bike bodies
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`state
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,215
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Jan 18, 2010 13:43:33 GMT
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I stumbled across my setup and got it dirt cheap.Gsxr bodies all spaced out,manifold,m-tech v3 megasquirt.All for 200 quid. For value for money its got to be bike bodies.
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Look at all the plastic people who live without a care.Try to sit with me around my table,but never bring a chair.
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Potter
Part of things
'E who dares wins,eh Rodders??!
Posts: 304
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Jan 18, 2010 16:23:05 GMT
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Manta what engine is that setup on? Seems I'm going to go for it lads! The things are so cheap compared to Webers that even if I can't make em work I won;t have lost much.I'll be trying to fab the manifold myself by the way. So R1 carbs seem the best bet right?
Kee like I said mate this is going to be a dedicated drag engine,so driveability don't come into it much. I'm planning on using MSD ignition on it.
I'll keep y'all posted! Should be while though
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More cars than sense or money!🙄
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`state
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 1,215
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Jan 18, 2010 17:24:39 GMT
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The bodies are for my xe.I'm just trying to figure all the wiring for the megasquirt out now. If you can get the carbs from a larger engined gsxr you should be able to space them out to match your manifold,rather than fecking around getting the tubes to the right angles to match the carbs.You just need some small threaded rod and four spaces.
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Look at all the plastic people who live without a care.Try to sit with me around my table,but never bring a chair.
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Jan 18, 2010 18:01:05 GMT
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Potter, I would go for megajolt over MSD, more control and easier to set up. Even better just get an megasquirt ECU and just use the spark control for now, then move on to injection when the mood takes you
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