filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Nottingham Sports Car Club? www.gosprinting.co.uk/Bit of a dilema with my Rocco - The GTI was 1800cc 8v originally, but Volkswagen did sell the 1800cc 16v in the UK, so it appears I could fit that and stay in modprod. However the 16v I have tucked away isn't in great condition, but I do have a 2 litre 16v from an Audi... but the 1.8 and 2.0 blocks I believe are very slightly different, and the latter was never fitted from the factory. If I want to sprint the Rocco in modprod at some point, rather than it just being a trackday toy, I am going to have to stick with the 1.8 block aren't I? Don't particularly want to end up in Sports Libre... |
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Last Edit: Oct 29, 2008 9:08:12 GMT by filmidget
'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Yes, that's who I'm looking at joining in the new year. Not really much point until then as I'll then apply for the '09 licence. In theory you'd have to use the 1.8, but how different are the blocks & will anyone notice?  Depends how honest/cheeky you feel really! Or how hard/expensive would it be to find another 1.8 16v lump? |
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Goldenwonder, I don't think its as simple as that, if the 2 litre block is allowed, then the car can be built as a 2 litre, if not then if it is run as an 1800, when it is really a 2 litre then thats cheating! And I don't think anybody is suggesting cheating.
Russell
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Oct 29, 2008 10:14:21 GMT
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Yes I know it would be cheating, I wasn't suggesting it, but, unfortunately it does happen in some forms of motorsport.
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Oct 29, 2008 10:24:23 GMT
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I haven't actually checked the blocks side-by-side but I am assuming the 2.0 is a 'bubble block'* version of the 1.8, and therefore different. I wouldn't be interested in cheating, it's just I have a good 2.0, and for trackdays and general hooning the 2.0 is good for 15-20bhp & a useful amount of torque.
A possibility is fitting the 2.0 crank/rods/pistons to the 1.8 block, as is supposedly possible with the 8v version of 1.8 & 2.0 engines - would that be eligable?
I struggled to find online the detailed regs laid down when I last looked - where were the ones above quoted from?
* Bubble block - term used, in VW circles at least, for a version of the (otherwise similar) smaller capacity block where the sides of the larger capacity block are bowed out to allow room for a longer throw crank.
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Oct 29, 2008 10:34:05 GMT
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I've only managed to find bits here & there scattered around. I'm going to wait until Jan, then apply for the licence & the MSAS send the blue book with rules in with the licence ( or so I believe)
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Oct 29, 2008 10:35:20 GMT
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this is what i want to know, how strict are they on a 'production block', are we talking exactly the same block? or does it just have to be from the same 'family'
i guess a good starting point would be to find out how close a pinto block is to a YB, i cant imagine it being identical to the standard block fitted in the mk2 escort?
can i put a zetec in place of a CVH... or can i put an american 1900CVH in place of my english 1600?
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Oct 29, 2008 10:58:39 GMT
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AKAIK, the block fitted has to have been fitting in a production car of the same model, so I can fit a 1300cc Starlet engine in my car that was originally a 1200, but I can't fit a 1500cc ot ofthe liteace van, even though it looks the same & I can't use a 1300cc 16v out of a later Starlet as that's not a production engine in my year & model of car, if that makes sense? Sure I've read something like that, just can't remember where
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Oct 29, 2008 11:08:55 GMT
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Oct 29, 2008 11:37:12 GMT
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Excellent, good find! Something to chew over tonight
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Oct 29, 2008 11:41:28 GMT
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Rules 94 & 95 have it!
I will have to use the 1.8 block, but I can try and fit the 2.0 crank/rods/pistons 'cos that's allowed as it will stay in the same capacity class. Woo, and indeed Hoo!
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Oct 29, 2008 11:41:40 GMT
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AKAIK, the block fitted has to have been fitting in a production car of the same model, so I can fit a 1300cc Starlet engine in my car that was originally a 1200, but I can't fit a 1500cc ot ofthe liteace van, even though it looks the same & I can't use a 1300cc 16v out of a later Starlet as that's not a production engine in my year & model of car, if that makes sense? Sure I've read something like that, just can't remember where i see. but i thought there was some lee-way as to what was allowed, although not detailed in the blue book, its probably worth looking at some 'case studies' I'm happy to stick with my CVH now its going a lot better, but a zetec would actually make me a lot more competitive and is based on the same bottom end. there was a guy running a SS1 in mod prod with an american 1900 block, which AFAIK is the same as a uk 1600 except the numbers on the side, and a bit more height to take the extra stroke filmidget: if you can ram 2.0 pistons/rods/crank into a 1.8 then thats fine as mods are free so long as the 'production block' remains and 2.0 to 1.8 wont take you up a class (you are not allowed to increase the displacement if it takes you up a displacement class unless the car was available with the larger CC, e.g. taking a 1.3cvh ss1 and boreing it out to 1640 would be fine as although you have gone from the up to 1400 class to the 1401-2000cc class the car was available from the factory in that cc class, but if you take a 1.6 ss1 and make it 2.1 you cant run that as you have gone from the 1401-2000cc class to the 2000cc+ class and the ss1 was never produced with a CVH in that size) |
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filmidget
East Midlands
Mostly Lurking
Posts: 1,652
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Oct 29, 2008 11:53:26 GMT
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Yep, just said that while you were typing  To me that 1900 block shouldn't be allowed as it's not the same block? But obviously it looks close enough that it's not become an issue? Good example on some forum about Mi16 engined 205's - apparently the std 205 blocks and Mi16 blocks are very similar apart from a bracket for a tensioner, and you can fit the 16v head on a std 205 block provided you need to weld on a tensioner bracket. This bracket is not visible once the cambelt cover is back on. So all a Mi16 engined 205 driver has to say is that's it's a 205 block with a welded bracket. How much trouble do the scrutineers go to for a car that perhaps is not in teh top several in class anyway? |
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'79 MG Midget 1500 - Still patiently awaiting attention
'02 Vauxhall Astra 1.8 Elegance(!) - Better than you might think
'03 Mazda MX5 - All new and shiny looking (thanks to Antony at Rust Republic)
'09 Renault Clio - Needs to go.
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Mr K
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,993
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Oct 29, 2008 12:28:19 GMT
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Yep, just said that while you were typing To me that 1900 block shouldn't be allowed as it's not the same block? But obviously it looks close enough that it's not become an issue? Good example on some forum about Mi16 engined 205's - apparently the std 205 blocks and Mi16 blocks are very similar apart from a bracket for a tensioner, and you can fit the 16v head on a std 205 block provided you need to weld on a tensioner bracket. This bracket is not visible once the cambelt cover is back on. So all a Mi16 engined 205 driver has to say is that's it's a 205 block with a welded bracket. How much trouble do the scrutineers go to for a car that perhaps is not in teh top several in class anyway? Yea, just doing a bit more research and it looks like i can build a 1.9 CVH using 1800 sierra crank, triumph dolomite rods, mercedes 200 pistons, in a 1600 block with a larger than ford recomended over bore to give me a 1900, or i can buy a 1900 off the shelf with some different numbers on the block and a longer stroke and have the same effect. one is definatly allowed, the other is a bit 50/50. the end effect is the same, the cost in building a completely legal 1.9 is massive compared to buying one off the shelf from america. i think i will stick with building my 1640 block. |
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Oct 29, 2008 21:16:10 GMT
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They won't be bothered until you start winning, then your co-competitors will take a lot of interest in your car and the blue book!
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1997 TVR Chimaera
2009 Westfield Megabusa
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