After reading the rules and regs of this board before registering I find the remarks aimed towards the Banger community to whom I belong slightly contradict them. As I have stated on other forums their are bad apples in every barrell Oval racing included but it doesn`t make us all bad. Amongst the Banger ranks are a Barrister, Bank managers endless white collar workers, postmen, RAC / AA blokes, Farmers, Health care assistants, Forensic photographers, Policemen and countless people in the motor trade who are not of doubtful origin. Sorry to anyones profession I may have missed which does not involve the theft of vehicles to race, perhaps any drivers who read this could tell us what they do for a living and paint a better picture of what we are and do. Whilst on the subject of trustworthyness how many times have I seen classic owners purchase logbooks and tags to doctor a car whether for, tax exempt purposes, plate changes at D.V.LA. or to ring an obtained car. Whilst on the subject let`s not forget the insurance scam when an unobtainable autobox or engine gives way in a classic and it`s lost for an insurance claim, who gets the blame then ? Got it in one / THE BANGER FRATERNITY. The classic owner not all of them included only the minority that would do this sort of thing don`t go to the classic meets and tell the truth, they say it`s been chored by car thieves which comes round to us again as the guilty party.
I tend to stay off the 'stolen car' threads apart from to remember some details to keep an eye out for as it makes me rather too uncomfortable to see banger racers getting the blame for everything.
Unfortunately CiBi's car did indeed turn up at a banger meet but it's been a fair few months since it was stolen and we have no idea how many hands it's been through, and whether it was purchased for racing as known stolen or not. other cars that have gone missing have simply never turned up.
come on guys, we can't keep blaming banger racers for stolen motors. the classic and retro scene is on the up and up and unfortunately people have twigged that this means easily stolen cars, cheap advert in Ad-Mag, lots of profit. i'm pretty sure there's still something in this country that says you're innocent until proven guilty?
Never trust a man Who names himself Trevor. Or one day you might find He's not a real drug dealer.
Post by trackclassicsports on Jun 16, 2006 8:56:27 GMT
Amongst the Banger ranks are a Barrister, Bank managers endless white collar workers, postmen, RAC / AA blokes, Farmers, Health care assistants, Forensic photographers, Policemen and countless people in the motor trade who are not of doubtful origin. Sorry to anyones profession I may have missed which does not involve the theft of vehicles to race, perhaps any drivers who read this could tell us what they do for a living and paint a better picture of what we are and do.
Are there professions in which car theft is a part of there job?
Read the threads guys. People aren't blaming the banger community for the theft. There is one suspect and it's up to all of us to prove that we can all work together to make sure that a. We find out the truth and the relevant parties are suitably punished and shamed and b. It doesn't happen again.
I want banger racers on this forum, I want to hear their stories and see their cars. All the good guys need to pull together to weed out the bad ones, the same would apply for a thief in the classic scene too. A stolen car was bangered on wednesday night, we KNOW it was the same car and we know who prepared the car and then brought it to the meeting. I don't know the facts about how he came to have the car or how he missed the many appeals for it at the time of it's theft but the mere appearance of it is enough reason to stop defending and start acting positively.
Decent, respectful banger racers (and I'm very willing to believe they are the majority) have a choice now, do the right thing and act against the same minority we're aiming these comments at. Banger racers are not the enemy...thieves are.
I'm aware that HotWire wants this issue to be dealt with appropriately and that we end any tit-for-tat slanging matches on the forum and this will therefore be my last post in this thread.
I look forward to the day when this is resolved that I can go to arena Essex, shake the hands of my fellow car enthusiasts and watch some great racing. That racing will be with cars at the end of their lives going out in style, be they rare or common, but not disrespectfully stolen from proud owners. That should be everyone's goal.
Right; you want to know about us "scum" banger racers. I am an occasional racer (mostly in old stuff) and I also mechanic for a regular racer who races nothing but classics.
I am a training consultant in the banking industry - and guess what, my brother is a full time police officer - last year we rebuilt a 1200 LHD beetle together. So as you can imagine, I'm out every night TWOC'ing old cars.
You people saying that our whole sport is to blame for car thefts are idiots.
Do you blame respectable football fans for the sins of the hooligan? Do you blame every Catholic for the IRA? If something has been stolen then it is the job of THE LAW and THE POLICE to do something about it - not us. It is hardly like the police are coming to investigate and we are with holding information or being obstructive is it?
Also, I bet some of you people gobbing off about "baseball bats" etc... would sh*t your pants if I got my hands on you, let alone some of the people that race bangers. For god's sake, say something constructive and truthful or STFU!
Our sport takes action against the scumbags when it can - a driver punches another driver can expect a year's ban. How many other "full contact" sports are anything like that strict about conduct? I have never seen a driver caught with a stolen car at the track - so how can the promoters do anything about it? The people connected with bangers who do get caught stealing cars get caught away from the tracks - there would be no way for the promoters to know that they had been caught and also no way to prove it would be connected with bangers, so how do you propose the sport takes action?
It is not practical to check VIN's as one of your members has suggested whilst stirring on a banger forum - reason being that they can be doctored in seconds on 60's and 70's cars. If VIN checks were introduced, the "dodgy" drivers would just keep a "legit" VIN for each model of car, and ring stolen ones for racing. I know I could ring an A60 or a P5 in a couple of minutes if I was that way inclined. Another reason ID's cannot be checked is that a lot of the cars we pick up are bare shells, not even technically regarded as a car as far as the law is concerned. These are "racestored" with axles, engines+box (often out of a different make of car) installed - by the time they hit the track they are a banger but they are not one car.
I understand the frustration and upset caused when a car is stolen, and my sympathies go out to anybody who has had a car stolen - I have been there myself. The first car I owned that I passed my driving test in that I did up and resprayed was nicked and burned out. This year the guy I mechanic for had a car that we were supposed to collect for racing stolen near Ipswich and a mate who races bangers and runs a garage business had his recovery truck stolen and cut up by travellers who we suspect learned about where it was kept when they saw it at a banger track... you lot are not the only victims by any means. The minority involved in tis sort of thing should always be regarded as travellers first and banger racers a distinct second.
If the location of that 180B was known, then you should all be petitioning the police to find out how it managed to sit there for months and make it onto the track, rather than blaming the whole banger community for it.
I have already posted on banger sites in defense of Practical Classics appealing for help from our community to find the mk1 granny, as I think Matt would be able to confirm. It is not the case that we don't care, it is the case that when a criminal element are intent on committing crimes away from the stadiums we cannot do anything much about it - sad but true.
Finally, those of you considering alarms - if you own something like a 260C, mk1 Granada etc... and genuinely believe that your car is a theft target for banger racing then you should fit a tracking device. The reason is that many banger drivers and pretty much all the scrap dealers who supply us with cars have trucks with Hi-Ab cranes that will lift & shift a car in seconds - immobilisers, wheel clamps etc... would be no good.
*edit* just to add, my thanks / respect to those posting moderate and sensible opinions about my chosen sport.
Post by trackclassicsports on Jun 17, 2006 3:04:41 GMT
wilko, not every one is labelling banger drivers as scum. What most people are upset about is that it would appear that the honest (and very much so the majority) drivers arent doing alot to flush out the bad apples. Every ones hearts are well and truly broken at the moment after seeing cibi's car and the matter is a very sore subject at the moment. I'm sure i speak for most people on here that no one really wants any violence to take place, as whats that gonna solve? Ive not been a member of this site for ages but i have been on here long enough to know that they are a decent bunch of people. Hope you decide to stay posting chap, be a shame to see someone only sign up just to post on this. Heres hoping .......
I quite possibly will keep reading the site - I am actually well into old cars myself, not just for smashing up.
It would be lovely if we could ban scumbags from racing - there are a few unsavoury types that drag the sport down for those of us involved for more reasons than stealing cars. BUT in order for the sport to do anything "as a sport", the driver has to do something AT THE TRACK. The promoters of the sport would have no way of knowing what the drivers get up to the rest of the time - they will have no way other than heresay of knowing if anybody gets convicted of anything related to the Datsun. The legal system is the tool to be used to deal with criminals - if it isn't doing that then banger racing can't fix the problem.
I don't know if any of you are familiar with the idea, but the most effective way to fix problems is to address the ROOT CAUSE. I think youcould argur that the root cause of this problem is that old cars are easily stolen and not recovered.
If you REALLY value your vehicle and want classic car thefts to stop, FIT A TRACKER TO YOUR CAR. In the event your car is stolen, the police will be able to find and recover your vehicle fast which will greatly increase the chance that they can throw the book at the scum who stole it - they will quite possibly have previous convictions and end up doing some time and we can all rejoice.
As the recent theft of the Sunbeam Stilleto shows, plenty of classic cars that would never get near a banger track are stolen as well.
So, it may also be worth us honest old car fans getting together as a group and putting pressure on the police to get more involved and take the problem more seriously.
So, it may also be worth us honest old car fans getting together as a group and putting pressure on the police to get more involved and take the problem more seriously.
You are bang on, and it is something we definatly need to do.
I'd also like the VIN numbers on bangered cars get recorded. Even if they are checked up on after the event at least it is known which cars were destroyed. If someone has been sly and replaced the vin on a stolen car, that stuff will still show up as an anomily (spelling?). It isn't a whole lot of extra effort and it would go someway to help heal some of the wounds that have been caused over the years.
Yeah there are more serious crimes..murders,rapes and gawd knows what else. The theft and destruction of a car that is cherished and loved is still a very serious crime IMO though that needs addressing as a matter of urgency.
hey we all know that. Everyone agrees that the vast majority of banger folk are decent, honest, car enthusiasts.
However there are a tiny minority who are quite simply robbing traveller scum. CiBi's formerly mint Datsun is 100% inescapable evidence of this. And i don't see much outrage in the banger camps about it, in fact the typical response is 'leave us alone, we are decent folk, we can't keep track of every single racer and every single car', which is a frankly p1ss poor response i'm afraid. If the banger crews really wanted to weed this out they could, but they don't. Simple as.
1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE 1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
Because if the banger racers don't try, then they'll all end up being tarred with the same brush. Checking the legitamacy of a car isn't that hard. Each racer hands in the logbook to their race car as it's raced and if the car gets completely wrecked then the logbooks get sent to the DVLA after the race marked 'scrapped'. Then that cars idendity can't be used again. A small price to pay to clear the sport's name, surely...especially as almost all of the cars aren't stolen.
This apathy and the defence of the guilty is already starting to make the banger community look guilty themselves by association, can you not see that?
If you got burgled, or your Mum was robbed would you be happy if the police said 'But there's so many people, why bother?'. Come on Tombo, you've made more efforts than most by coming on this forum and making your voice heard...how about taking these last steps?
I reckon that this Tombo type needs his bumps feeling. To paraphrase, Old cars get nicked 'cause they are nickable, Police should not investigate a known honeypot of stolen cars as there are too many, all stock drivers are clean as there is a Barrister and a Policeman doing it...
Behave. The root cause is the thief, not the person who has the item that they want, and I want thieves to be punished for taking anything, even a picture from my wallet. It is mine, and belongs to me, not theirs to take because they can… Not poxy fines either, I want them to have to turn up and clean public bogs and sweep the street, wearing a fluorescent pink bib with 'PETTY THIEF' in big letters on it. And you are telling me that all Policemen are legit, and Barristers too?!
Anyone who sees this as a worthwhile pass-time (NOT sport) is odd in my book, and that goes double for the plod and barrister. Not only that, with a bit of lateral thinking they could afford a half decent track racer, and entry into a real competition for what they spend on these things.
It is just another classic example of replacement psychology. Can't have or do what someone else can, so they use a corrupt version of what they really want in order to prove that they did not really want it in the first place. Sad and deficient in all aspects. We all knew them as kids who would smash up an expensive toy, for their parents to go out and buy them another, as a substitute for attention. From where I stand this is just the same, "look at me, I'm smashing up a cool car!", "look at me, I've got this, only one of two in the UK, it's perfect, so I'm going to smash it, how cool am I?!".
The answer is not cool. You are in fact a proper COOT.
I'd rather save one heap, than smash up a wreck, any day of the week.
Hope this stolen car turns up and is re-united with its owner. I have been involved with banger racing for over 30 years and am also keen on post war classic cars except for sports cars which do nothing for me whatsoever. I am a law abiding citizen and have no convictions for anything and have never had a speeding fine or points on my driving licence. I would also like to point out that I had a fairly decent childhood and that I looked after my toys and was not spoilt. I began racing at age 15 and all the costs of my racing were financed by doing a newspaper round. My parents did not contribute one penny as it would have been unfair to my brother and sisters if I was favoured. To those who may think I have an odd mindset as to want to partake in banger racing then I would add that I am keen model maker and have made all sorts of models over the years and have 3 radio control model aircraft at the moment..all self built. My banger racing has always been on a very tight budget and I certainly couldnt afford other forms of racing even if I wanted to do them. It certainly is a sport and is much more competitive than the formula 1 circus and many other forms of motorsport where technology and money has bought wins over the skill of the competitors. As in much of life there are ignorant bigots about who have little contructive to say about things they no little about such as badger bill. Keep to what you know to be fact and not speculate as you end up looking foolish and damage the classic car movements reputation. ps ...to badger bill ..are you really 105 as your profile says ? It is inevitable that on occasions stolen cars end up on the banger track wether by design or by default. It is also inevitable that stolen cars end up on the classic car scene as complete cars with different identification or as parts again by design of by default. The vast majority of stolen cars though will not end up in either of the two scenarios given. The classic car movement and clubs have made efforts to try and deter car theft but cannot rule it out completely as this would be impossible. For instance ..can you really verify the provenance of every second hand car part at an autojumble to ensure it was not sourced from a stolen car...The answer to that is NO.
The banger racing community as a whole does not see it in their best interests for stolen cars to appear on track and does what it can to be responsible . Should the actions of an individual bring the sport a bad name then appropriate action is taken. I am afraid the log book idea is not practical. Legally what is suggested with organisers/promoters sending in log books of cars wrecked at the tracks would be breaking the law. The responsibility of trying to ensure what a driver races is not stolen has to lie with the individual driver. Banger drivers do sometimes buy cars without documentation and in the vast majority of cases there is no reason whatsover to suggest any criminal activity has been involved. It is also true that classic car enthusiasts have obtained cars for restoration or spares without documentation being available. The current situation with the datsun 180B SSS is not something banger racing needed or desired. I wish to refrain from commenting further in case of impending court cases but have full sympathy with the person who legitimately owned the said car.