10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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2k painting guide please?10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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Ok..
Any help much appreciated, i'v gone off the ides of painting my mustang satin black as there are too many wrecks driving around with satin black trying to hide rust and shoddy bodywork, so I'm going gloss black with silver cobra stripes..
Only problem is I want a 2k finish and strength but I've only ever sprayed celly...
I am motor trade (my own business) so there should be no problem buying the stuff, I have a 250litre compressor so that should be ok, and i have the proper 4m canister mask and airtight goggles, I can knock up a booth in my workshop pretty easily, but i doubt I'll be able to get good ventilation....
I have an alright suction fed gun (should I buy a gravity one?)
The things i need to know are, all the practical processes
1 how to mix the paint with the hardener 2 what psi to spay it at 3 weather to thin it or not and how much 4 is the spraying technique the same as celly (wet edge etc) 5 will i die a horrible death? 6 new spray gun...
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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1. get a 2:1 measuring stick from your paint suppliers. paint in to the first mark, hardner in to the second mark, then thinners to 10,20 or 30 percent. 2. about 45 psi suits me. 3.Thin it as above. 4.pretty much. 5. probably not! Try and get as much ventilation as you can and get some painting overalls to go with your mask and goggles. 6. Try it with what you have. I have got pretty good results with a clarke gravity gun, but I used to use suction guns. The only problem with them is you get a bit of paint wasted each time that the gun cant suck up. And don't bash the cup on your fresh paint!
Hope that helps a bit.
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1 how to mix the paint with the hardener
This depends. Usually its 2:1 but some is 3:1 or even 5:1 and then depending on the level of reducer you use as well... Check on the tin and the product data sheet. I prefer graduated mixing cups to mixing sticks but work with what works for you. You can usually get good advice from the guys on the trade counter.
2 what psi to spay it at
Depends on the gun. HVLP or HP? Again the product data sheet will specify the air pressure at the gun and also the overlap pattern to use for best coverage and minimal wasteage.
3 weather to thin it or not and how much
From my experiance as a 1st time 2K user I'd say thin it as much as you can. If it says use 30% max reducer then use 30%.
4 is the spraying technique the same as celly (wet edge etc)
Yup.
5 will I die a horrible death?
cover up everything, use air tight goggles, mask etc. get as much airflow as you can without stiring up dust...
6 new spray gun...
I prefer gravity for a bunch of reasons - I find it easier to manouver, more ballanced when following curved panels etc. Just feels more "right" in my hand. However lots of jobs still needone of my old suction guns for and they do the job. As said above, they wastte a bit of paint but if you have a good one you like and get on well with then you should stick with it IMO. No point in changing for the sake of it.
*** compared to celly you really really need to clean your kit after thouroughly. 2K sets like concrete when fully cured. ***
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Do you just use the hardener in the clear/top coat?
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horneyâ„¢
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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This all sound slike hard work. I think I'll stick to my plan to roller paint the van, much less hassle!
Nick
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Do you just use the hardener in the clear/top coat? Sort of. You use the basecoat with thinners only, but the primer needs a hardener.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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This all sound slike hard work. I think I'll stick to my plan to roller paint the van, much less hassle! Rollering looks like more work to me. Spray a car you can be done in a day. Rollering seems to take like a fortnight.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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horneyâ„¢
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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This all sound slike hard work. I think I'll stick to my plan to roller paint the van, much less hassle! Rollering looks like more work to me. Spray a car you can be done in a day. Rollering seems to take like a fortnight. I agree excluding prep it takes twice as long but it's going to cost me less than £100 all in and as it's a panel van masking up that bad boy would take a day on it's own! I don't own any kit for spraying and I don't have anywhere indoors to put the van either so really spraying is cost and space prohabitive to me anyway. When I start I'll be updating my readers ride thread so you can all admire/laugh accordingly. Nick
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I hear what you're saying. However... Spray outside Celulose, 1K and synthetic are all suitable for out door spraying. You'll need to mask up whatever you use to paint with. You could blow over a small van for £60 - £75. Lack of equipment is the real bind, but you can sometime hire professional type HVLP rigs, a neighbour of mine did that at the old house. I think it cost him £60 for the weekend. Horses for courses really. I looked at rollering because my neighbours complained about the smell and she's an environmental enforcement officer! But they are moving out now so I hope the new neighbours just can't smell LOL All that rubbing out between coats would drive me mad.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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horneyâ„¢
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,289
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All that rubbing out between coats would drive me mad. That's what the wife is for! Anyway we live in a 1 bed flat and I only have the car park for working on the van/car. Not sure the neighbours would like having blue and white spray mist all over their cars! Nick
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Last Edit: Feb 7, 2008 13:27:19 GMT by horneyâ„¢
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Just to reiterate really, the paint supplier will have the Data sheets, for the paint and all the gun settings as well 4:1:1 the usual Ratio I always thought ? or is that synthetics ? It does spray differently I find a Dust coat - let it flash off for 10-15m then one decent coat really sticks well, you can lay it on thicker that with Celly almost to the point that you think it will run and then it just sort of flows out leaving a good finish from the gun In solid colours, if you get any runs, once it starts to cure cut them off with a sharp Razor blade Do not leave it any longer than 48hours MAX before flatting back and polishing because if you do, you`ll be using a 1500g on a DA sander to cut it back I was wet sanding runs out with 600g 2 weeks later it had set that hard ;D It sets Hard as glass after 48hours or so HTH Dom
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or 48 mins if you get the wrong hardener... there are different ones for different temperatures. You can use a product called Paint Rocket if its cold when you spray to further imprve the cure time.
The sanding down was what killed me. Awful. its so much easier to get a nice lustre and deep gloss with old school paints like celly or 1K.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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or 48 mins if you get the wrong hardener... there are different ones for different temperatures. You can use a product called Paint Rocket if its cold when you spray to further imprve the cure time. The sanding down was what killed me. Awful. its so much easier to get a nice lustre and deep gloss with old school paints like celly or 1K. I just think you had a real sh1t experience with 2K...... everything that could have gone wrong - did, wrong hardener, water in the air, hot weather etc etc and I sypathise becaues when it does go wrong its a lot harder to put right, but I found it alot easier overall to get a good finish than with celly, and its a lot more consistant in terms of effects/weather conditions Agreed the depth of shine you get on a mile deep black Cellulose finish cant be matched but the skill required to get that is way out of reach of most people anyway And metallics or Clear over Base are so much easier again with 2K ;D I find them easier to spray than Solid colours and they are easier to match as well.... just think you had an unusually bad experience
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
|
2k painting guide please?10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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hmmm,
so do you suggest i use 1k? alistair?
As i said i am just going for gloss black all over, so I shouldnt need a clear coat i reckon..
So it just get the paint mix the activator in it and shoot?
getting a bit confused with activators/hardeners...
So 2k primer needs a hardener?
and 2k top coat needs an activator?
and 2k laquer needs what?
cooonnnffuusseedd...
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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hmmm, so do you suggest I use 1k? alistair? As I said I am just going for gloss black all over, so I shouldnt need a clear coat I reckon.. So it just get the paint mix the activator in it and shoot? getting a bit confused with activators/hardeners... So 2k primer needs a hardener? and 2k top coat needs an activator? and 2k laquer needs what? cooonnnffuusseedd... In conventional 1K paints there is 1 component + Thinner In 2K there are 2 components + thinner Thats the same whether its Primer, topcoat or laquer Most basecoats are polyester which require no activator just thinners Start with 2K primer You will need a laquer over the silver stripe so I would be inclined to go polyester 1k base black 1k base silver stripe then you have a choice of Acrylic 1K laquer which is very simple - just pour from can to Gun and spray Or 2K laquer which is Laquer+ Hardener/Activator(Same thing)+ thinners (depending on conditions) Think of it as Araldite verses PVA glue one air drys the other is a chemical reaction to set Does that help ?
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Personally, I have been happy using cellulose and also using HS basecoat topped with 1K clear (HS basecoat was designed for 2K clear but works fine with 1K, although I understand HS basecoat is "technically unavailable" now as it not compliant with the current EU regs, but... some places may still be sellign it anyway, but I digress....)
Celly, and to a lesser extent 1K both suffer from bloom if the temperature drops or humidity rises before the paint is reasonably cured. Once it blooms, its f##ked. Only new paint will fix that. Celly and 1K are both suceptible to staining, fading and celly can react with stoppers, primers, fillers, and all maner of other things you may have used in good faith on your bodywork.
I have either been careful enough or lucky enough never to have these problems but I am a fair-weather painter and paint only when I think the climate suits it.
Dom is right, my 2K experianbce wa a disaster from start to finish and there were a lot of contributory reasons for that. Water trap jammed on my compressor, temperature rose sharply in the day, I was using a cold weather hardner on a hot day, I wore inappropriate protective gear and felt badly sick after. etc.
Some people reckon that for gloss black a direct gloss is best (ie no clear) this is because scratches in the clear stand out more on a black paint job so they are more noticable than scratches in a straight black finish. Other people reckon you get a deeper shine easier with a clear over black base.
I've had both and both look nice when buffed up. Its a bit of an easier job to do a straight black IMO but if you're a regular clear-over-base guy then you'll probably do it that way out of habit.
I actually did my black C-O-B because the balc was originally going to be a basecoat for a flip paint but I chickened out in the end.
Hardener and activator are two names for the same thing. Like we call thinners "reducers" if its 2K but thinners its all it is.
primers and clears are both catalysed (ie use an activator) and the basecoat is just an air drying paint.
If you use 2K direct gloss (ie non-clear coat) then that uses an activator.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Well put ;D Made far more sense than my Reply ;D
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I was just thinking the same about yours.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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any excuse for pics of my old Prefect as bought painted in dulux Devil's own job to get it off. Luckily I know the devil and he owed me a favour. Totally cool 80s paint job under the skag bit of straightening required BARCOAT is your freind grey ghost look in Upol celly primer black HS basecoat, RFU 1K clear... as sprayed then buffed up nice. Nasty wheels. Never got round to replacing them with slotmags an e-beer for anyone who can identify all the other retro junk cars in the backgrounds of the photos
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Last Edit: Feb 7, 2008 16:24:25 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Very nice slot mags would have been nice on that My last Black one: 2K Primer 1k Polyester Base in Black magic Pearl 2K Laquer All sprayed with a cheap Aldi compressor and the even cheaper spraygun that came with it as the compressor wouldnt run my Devilbiss ;D ;D
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