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Jan 26, 2008 20:47:37 GMT
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Come on. Policemen are humans too. Part of their JOB is to maintain good relations with the community (including you). Any member of the police is put into a position of authority, like it or not. Do you want friendly, slightly paternal policemen, or a load of brown shirts? It could be worse. In some parts of the world, a policeman is more likely to drag you out of your car and beat you half to death than ask a few friendly questions about your motor. A police state is where the police define the law as they please, and operate above it. This does not describe what happens here. Police misbehaviour happens now and then.. its an inevitable risk of authority. When it does happen, it doesn't stay secret. It gets investigated, plastered all over the news, and sometimes coppers end up in jail. Coppers have some of the hardest jobs out there. They are subject to a huge amount of scrutiny by their own organisation, breathing down their neck, making sure they do it by the book. Even with that, they need a huge amount of self control too, to stop them going off the deep end when they have to deal with something really gruesome. A policeman is a human being trying to do a job which only a god could do perfectly. If there is nothing malicious in their actions, i'm not going to hold them to god-like standards.
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got pulled by the coppersBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Jan 26, 2008 20:52:14 GMT
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Might sound a bit Orwellian, but I feel that whether it's the fault of the Police or the government we do increasingly live in a Police state and are treated like cattle by "the powers that be"... I agree there, but surely a police officer showing a human-nature interest in an old car is a sign that they are not all drones of the state? People lament the passing of "personal policing" where every household knew the local bobby. Now all of a sudden the police show a human face and a genuine interest instead of just busting people for minor transgressions, and they're the spawn of satan. When the bloke at the auto factors shows an interest in my car, I don't whinge on at him about "you're getting paid for nosing around my car". I don't see why the police should be any different, and you have the advantage of the coppers knowing you and your car incase some sh*t decides to nick it, like Herald998 said.
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Jan 26, 2008 20:54:54 GMT
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Come on. Policemen are humans too. Part of their JOB is to maintain good relations with the community (including you). Any member of the police is put into a position of authority, like it or not. Do you want friendly, slightly paternal policemen, or a load of brown shirts? It could be worse. In some parts of the world, a policeman is more likely to drag you out of your car and beat you half to death than ask a few friendly questions about your motor. A police state is where the police define the law as they please, and operate above it. This does not describe what happens here. Police misbehaviour happens now and then.. its an inevitable risk of authority. When it does happen, it doesn't stay secret. It gets investigated, plastered all over the news, and sometimes coppers end up in jail. Coppers have some of the hardest jobs out there. They are subject to a huge amount of scrutiny by their own organisation, breathing down their neck, making sure they do it by the book. Even with that, they need a huge amount of self control too, to stop them going off the deep end when they have to deal with something really gruesome. A policeman is a human being trying to do a job which only a god could do perfectly. If there is nothing malicious in their actions, i'm not going to hold them to god-like standards. Well put, can't really disagree with your points... guess I've been on the sharp end of a few too many wannabe gods when I've been doing nothing wrong, and received shockingly apathetic and bureaucratic service when I've needed their help.
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Jan 26, 2008 21:01:31 GMT
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"personal policing"? You mean when the Police had even more ability to do what they liked, without the police force itself disciplining them? When they could get away with slapping people around? When they were allowed much more room for their own moral judgements to take precedence over the letter of the law?
When a corrupt and amoral ego tripper in a uniform could REALLY do some damage to you, and to society? Instead of just getting pissy about you doing 35mph?
If the police obeying their own rules makes them seem faceless.. So what? Can't have it both ways.
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Jan 26, 2008 21:05:33 GMT
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Brewing my response to this, bearing in my my recent run in with the Terminator! If the friendly bobby on the beat is familiarising them selves with the local people and the local interesting cars, I guess that's no bad thing. specially if you came away with a slight car ego massage and Mr Happy smile, not a 3 day explosive bad mood like I did!!!!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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got pulled by the coppersBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Jan 26, 2008 21:09:33 GMT
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"personal policing"? You mean when the Police had even more ability to do what they liked, without the police force itself disciplining them? When they could get away with slapping people around? When they were allowed much more room for their own moral judgements to take precedence over the letter of the law? When a corrupt and amoral ego tripper in a uniform could REALLY do some damage to you, and to society? Instead of just getting pissy about you doing 35mph? If the police obeying their own rules makes them seem faceless.. So what? Can't have it both ways. Well, at the risk of sliding waay OT, I personally don't blame the police directly for the state of affairs with modern policing and the law. I blame the government. The police, as you say, just do their job. The laws which they must uphold are made by parliament... and that's where I have the beef (both with motoring and wider issues... but that's not really for here) And when I said "people lament the passing of personal policing", I didn't mean that I did... I don't remember such a time
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Jan 26, 2008 21:16:35 GMT
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Might sound a bit Orwellian, but I feel that whether it's the fault of the Police or the government we do increasingly live in a Police state and are treated like cattle by "the powers that be"... I agree there, but surely a police officer showing a human-nature interest in an old car is a sign that they are not all drones of the state? People lament the passing of "personal policing" where every household knew the local bobby. Now all of a sudden the police show a human face and a genuine interest instead of just busting people for minor transgressions, and they're the spawn of satan. When the bloke at the auto factors shows an interest in my car, I don't whinge on at him about "you're getting paid for nosing around my car". I don't see why the police should be any different, and you have the advantage of the coppers knowing you and your car incase some sh*t decides to nick it, like Herald998 said. Unlikely though that the bloke from the local motor factor has the power to force you to pull over, possibly making you cr4p yourself for a few seconds/minutes? Also, if he doesn't like your car or you... well... so what? Officer Dibble on the other hand can be as genial or as otherwise as he/she sees fit or can justify within the tolerances of the role and how much he/she likes your haircut/car/whatever. If you happened to be in the Police station picking up some "Victim Support" pamphlets and a friendly fuzz ambled up for a chat about your ride then that's a different drill, and more akin to the motor factor wallah. Totally don't have an issue with that.
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Jan 26, 2008 21:22:15 GMT
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"personal policing"? You mean when the Police had even more ability to do what they liked, without the police force itself disciplining them? When they could get away with slapping people around? When they were allowed much more room for their own moral judgements to take precedence over the letter of the law? When a corrupt and amoral ego tripper in a uniform could REALLY do some damage to you, and to society? Instead of just getting pissy about you doing 35mph? If the police obeying their own rules makes them seem faceless.. So what? Can't have it both ways. Well, at the risk of sliding waay OT, I personally don't blame the police directly for the state of affairs with modern policing and the law. I blame the government. The police, as you say, just do their job. The laws which they must uphold are made by parliament... and that's where I have the beef (both with motoring and wider issues... but that's not really for here) And when I said "people lament the passing of personal policing", I didn't mean that I did... I don't remember such a time Yep, I think I'm on the same wavelength as you. The Police "service" is as good or as bad as the government legislation and the delegation of authority that they're given... a few rogue elements aside I can accept that they're doing a job... but the institution itself and the way I feel about it is not coloured by anything other than me wanting to live an honest and easy life without being made to feel constantly like a criminal... (airport security and it's ever-changing rules, robocop speed cameras meaning that safe overtaking is now a paradox and to drive is to throw my wallet and licence in the air and see where it lands, London congestion charges and the previous charging regime (admit it's now changed)... blah blah blah)
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Jan 26, 2008 21:28:17 GMT
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Human beings just have a dysfunctional relationship with authority. We are tribal animals, who crave authority for ourselves, and fear anyone else in authority.
This is why we have developed systems of authority that move in the direction of giving individuals only provisional authority, and maintaining some kind of oversight or control over them. It is because we fear ANYONE who gets to tell us what to do. The instinct is too deeply ingrained.
Yet we struggle to understand society in terms of anything other than ruler and ruled. Our monkey instincts just cant let go of the idea.
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Jan 26, 2008 21:44:38 GMT
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Interesting, well explained and with a gentle air of authority. Respect. Al
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1976 Suzuki GT550 Celica RA28...Gone
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Jan 26, 2008 23:16:55 GMT
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Yep, fair play to all involved. Interesting conversation and no personal slights. Someone should ring up and report a fault with the Internet... reason has broken out!
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Can't agree there sorry. It's kind of damned if they do, damned if they don't if you look at it like that. At least they were complimentary and friendly, nothing wrong with that imho and good on them I say. Of course they could just let people that are not breaking a law get on with their lives? Radical thought? When the Police can pull someone to pass a bit of time yet only forward on a crime number when a car is broken into... something's wonky. If the Inland Revenue busted in just cause they thought you had a few cool things in your house and fancied a nosey, under "random check" kind of explanation would that be equally OK? No, me neither. Plods should realise that respect is earned rather than an entitlement. Grrrrr, etc. No comparison at all. Have you never thought that in times where it sometimes seems like police pick on soft targets (like motorists) that a few who take time out to be polite and complimentary are terrible because of that? If I got tugged and found them to be like that I'd be chuffed to bits to be quite honest. I got pulled for the first time in years a few months back now in a Mk2 Cavalier (that looked dog rough) because due to my trade insurance it came up as uninsured on the ANPR. The cops who pulled me were really cool and explained that as I didn't have my insurance on me they could have had the car impounded on the spot. They showed me the ANPR kit and chatted away for quite a while about detection systems, how ANPR worked and car crime in the area etc. Personally speaking I was chuffed to bits with their attitude and it went a long way to changing my thoughts about all traffic cops being cash generating robots who didn't give a damn. Now we read some police have pulled a fellow RR'er up to be nice about his car and yet you still think that's wrong??? Did you consider that maybe actions like their's build bridges? Also if someone who wasn't wearing a uniform stopped you in a car park and was complimenatary about your car would you be as keen to have a dig at them for wasting your's/their's/taxpayer's money?
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,626
Club RR Member Number: 1
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got pulled by the coppersNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
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I am guessing this was around your home town of nottingham?
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darren lewis
Part of things
heaven wont have me and hell knows i'll take over
Posts: 503
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yes mate this was in mansfield, didnt really expect a discussion like this, ive had plenty of grief from curse word coppers in the past but i thought this was a good gesture, car was legal so i wasnt worried and all the coppers were very interested in the car, mods etc and at least one of them was very knowledgeable, i saw no harm in it............................
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,841
Club RR Member Number: 174
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got pulled by the coppersstealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Jan 27, 2008 10:34:34 GMT
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Because my dad is an copper I've gotten to know loads of his colleagues. 95% of em are really sound, and a lot of them (especially traffic) are really interested in cars of some sort. However all of them do have bad days (including my dad). People expect them to not be affected, but if you've spent the morning watching a 5 year old's body been scraped off the road or a car load of teenagers who have all been decapitated when they crashed through a metal fence then its hard to put yourself in a good mood for the rest of the day. I also think a lot of people believe that traffic cops are constantly at accidents or in car chases or other exciting things. Its not like that at all. Lots of time is just spent sitting there waiting for something to happen. If you've got even a small interest in cars and you've been sitting there for 2 hours, and something interesting drives by you'd go for a nosey. I know I would.
Matt
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Jan 27, 2008 10:55:43 GMT
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Surely traffic cops wanting to have a nosey around our kind of cars can only be a good thing. Not only are they showing an interest but it's the perfect opportunity for us to educate them about our rides which can only help with the next retro that gets pulled......
It could be you!! ;D
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Aircooled is cool.......
But V8 is great!!!!!!
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Jan 27, 2008 11:34:13 GMT
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I'm still on the fence with this. I'd have no problem if they came up to me in a car park or something. But pulling someone over just seems wrong. Can't quite figure out why though. Maybe its because I know I would mess myself violently if a copper pulled me over even if I knew everything was legal, maybe its because its abuse of their power. Who knows?
I suppose as long as they keep a balance between building a relationship with the public and doing their job, I have no major concern. I only have a problem when they ask me about any of my cars and my only response is "Its a deathtr.....nothing officer!"
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Jan 27, 2008 11:53:30 GMT
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Well, in the few years I've had the chevanne, I've been pulled over twice.
First time was in the middle of a big tax/insurance clampdown (camera vans, bikes, recovery trucks, cars galore... you know the scene) I was waved into a layby, and a copper came over and said "Is this a bedford chevanne?" I used to drive one of these when I first joined the force, nice thing to drive, but always sounded like the engine was going to explode." We had a two minute chat, he waved me on and we both got on with our day. Not a problem in my book, I'm pretty sure my tyres and tax disk got a cursory glance as he was walking over, so he was "doing his job"
Second time, winter evening, on my way home from work, a large white BMW with lots of lights started to follow me. After about a mile, on went the blues and I pulled over. Any idea why we've stopped you? nope, says I.. You wern't wearing a seatbelt. he says. This seatbelt? says I, indicating the still fastned belt around me..... You put that on while we were following you. No i didn't etc.. Anyhow, he got rather insistant, told me I had a choice of accepting a £30 penalty ticket, or risk being summonsed to court for the offence. I said "court please, Can you prove I wasn't wearing the belt?", he went for a quick chat with his mate, then came back and told me they would let me off with a warning, but that they were going to look out for me in future. Thing that gets me is I was wearing a belt, I always do, and it would be hard to see from behind if I was wearing one or not, so why thw grief?
Anyway, I always assume someone is going to be nice unless they act otherwise. This goes for policemen too.
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in
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dclane
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,037
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Jan 27, 2008 12:06:54 GMT
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I've been pulled quite a few times. The last was in 2001 (so I must've been good since then ) for speeding. They weren't pleasant and insisted on a court appearance - which I won ;D by proving the speed limit sign was behind a tree. However, I was on the M40 last year at 2am absolutely flying when an Impreza came past me. That was followed by a police car which pulled alongside - the copper in the passenger seat had a sign which he lit up saying "Slow Down". I duly did They then flew off after the Impreza. Just to be on the safe side I came off at the next junction and took the A40, but maybe they're not all bad. I would have been an easy pull (and I was doing over a ton) but they chose to catch the harder one.
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Current vehicle collection: 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero convertible - in mid-life crisis yellow No new retro as yet ... all attempts to sneak one onto the drive have failed.
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Jan 27, 2008 16:31:19 GMT
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Years ago a copper pulled me over because he was very interested in the Capri. He was really impressed with how it`s nose passed over a pedestrian crossing just as the traffic light turned red. He was so thrilled he told me I had scored three points, and gave me a little certificate of authenticity to prove it!
I was very pleased at first, but to be honest the certificate was nothing special and I was billed £60 for it, and to make matters worse the points I`d scored were taken back off me three years later! What a rip-off!
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