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Aug 21, 2023 20:00:36 GMT
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IC engines running on hydrocarbons are also full of water, basic chemistry of combustion is:
HC + O2 becomes CO2 + H2O
(where H is Hydrogen, C is carbon and O oxygen)
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,687
Club RR Member Number: 39
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HYDROGEN, this is interestingDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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Aug 21, 2023 20:27:56 GMT
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Hydrogen for transport is a contentious one because the majority of Hydrogen at present - say 97% of it - is produced by steam reforming of natural gas - So, its very popular with the Fossil fuel selling types. Just needs a bit of CO2 capture and it goes from Grey to Blue and we continue on our way to net zero whilst still dragging gas from the wells. Hmmmm - we are investing in CO2 capture and selling hundreds of licenses for the North Sea - Note a connection.
Hydrogen is a step - Although all this wind and solar are fine and dandy - and peeps are making great thnngs of the amount of sparks being produced by the green revolution - its a bit overblown when you measure the amount of energy produced by green means when compared to the amount of energy the country uses. And thats "energy" not "electricity"
I do like the comment from the old boy that "you could connect it to mask and keep breathing forever... LOL we do not breathe Water, Nitrogen or Oxides of Nitrogen - we breathe air - good old 21% Oxygen air - the Oxygen that's just been converted to water by combustion to make that engine run. If you cool that exhaust gas and breath it you will still die from asphyxiation.
About that Sniff sniff - I smell nothing - "Carbon Monoxide is a colourless, odourless, tasteless, highly toxic gas that is undetectable to the human senses" - Its not the stuff you can smell from a conventional tailpipe that will kill you .
Just seems a bit pointless to me when when gas petrol is still at the pumps - but that's just me.
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Last Edit: Aug 22, 2023 6:19:13 GMT by Darkspeed
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,836
Club RR Member Number: 174
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HYDROGEN, this is interestingstealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Aug 21, 2023 23:01:41 GMT
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IC engines running on hydrocarbons are also full of water, basic chemistry of combustion is: HC + O2 becomes CO2 + H2O (where H is Hydrogen, C is carbon and O oxygen) Around 15% on a petrol engine though, not nearly 100%. |
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Aug 22, 2023 13:29:44 GMT
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IC engines running on hydrocarbons are also full of water, basic chemistry of combustion is: HC + O2 becomes CO2 + H2O (where H is Hydrogen, C is carbon and O oxygen) Around 15% on a petrol engine though, not nearly 100%. and of course they all operate well above the boiling point so there is no liquid water in the engine anyway. |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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HYDROGEN, this is interestingslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Aug 22, 2023 15:46:57 GMT
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I'm fairly confident it will end up being in the mix once the world comes to its senses.
The actual energy will have to come from nuclear power, thats the only way we will ever make enough. By the very nature of nuclear power we will require to do something with the excess (ie store it!) Battery storage is already proving itself to be non-viable without some quantum leap in technology so when you consider current technologies available H2 seems a fairly nailed on as a solution to storing all that excess energy (synthetic fuels will probably be big too and used in areas where air pollution is less of an issue, planes anyone??)
Thing you have to remember is the big 'problems' facing road transport at the moment isn't climate change its air quality. People seem to have trouble teasing apart the two issues but essentially I don't think we are going to be running cars on synthetic diesel any time soon (at least new ones). I think there will be a mix of tech available. Cheap IC H2 vehicles, Mid range Battery only vehicles and then top of the line H2 and Battery hybrid vehicle using an onboard cell to give a battery vehicle unlimited range. The cheaper vehicles provide access to transport to the masses and don't need to be full of scarce resources but wont give the economy of the battery or 'hybrid' options as H2 fuel will always be a lot more expensive than just drawing power from the grid. It really depends what governments choose to tax however!
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Aug 22, 2023 17:01:14 GMT
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please excuse my ignorance here, but my mind jumps to the problems with the elements needed to manufacture Lithium batteries and then the end of life process. Has anyone managed to get both ends of this equation resolved?
My other thoughts are that, didn't Brazil change all their cars to running on alcohol which came from crops grown locally, is this not a reasonable answer? After all we'd be growing crops to run cars instead of digging up minerals and then disposing of them at the end of their life.
Like I say, I don't know all the answers or even pretend to be smart enough to
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I have something to say: It's better to burn out, than to fade away!
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Aug 22, 2023 19:36:52 GMT
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The trouble with growing crops for biofuel is that in many cases it takes up valuable land that could be used for growing food.
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,595
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Aug 22, 2023 19:55:20 GMT
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The trouble with growing crops for biofuel is that in many cases it takes up valuable land that could be used for growing food... ...for animals which become food themselves.  |
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Aug 22, 2023 21:03:39 GMT
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and in brazil a lot of it was grown on land cleared of the Amazon rainforest.
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Aug 22, 2023 21:52:06 GMT
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Yep. Biofuel is a red herring which in some cases uses more energy than it supplies.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,192
Club RR Member Number: 170
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HYDROGEN, this is interestingChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Aug 22, 2023 22:10:05 GMT
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The other problem with Hydrogen is how it is procured, and obtained, which some posters have alluded to above. Some are about as bad as fossil fuels today, meaning you are effectively creating more hassle just to obtain a newer technology. RetroWarwicK knows a little more here. |
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The other problem with Hydrogen is how it is procured, and obtained, which some posters have alluded to above. Some are about as bad as fossil fuels today, meaning you are effectively creating more hassle just to obtain a newer technology. RetroWarwicK knows a little more here. New EPSRC funded research hub for Hydrogen and Alternative Liquid Fuels. Warwick Sheffield Bath Universities. ukhyres.co.uk/about-the-project/ |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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HYDROGEN, this is interestingslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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It doesn't matter where Hydrogen comes from now. In the same way is doesn't matter that most of our electricity for battery cars comes from burning fossil fuels now. That's all a completely separate problem. The issue isnt energy production, its how you distribute and store the energy. Essentially power lines and batteries vs chemical storage in the form of H2 in pressurised tanks on the back of trucks.
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427za
Part of things
Posts: 32
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