tdk
Part of things
Posts: 958 
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Apr 28, 2022 21:50:36 GMT
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I love Metros, drove one to the Sahara for a laugh a few years ago, lovely ride and dead reliable!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Apr 28, 2022 21:57:52 GMT
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I think a lot of the widow maker myths on older cars could be pretty much cured with decent modern tyres. Yes they break away in a much more violent fashion, but the breakaway point is at such a higher speed (and exacerbated in the wet) that you'd have to be doing something really silly to get anywhere near that point. I'd say the breakaway is more progressive in all honesty. I have 3 empirical examples and one 'podcast' example Pug 205 GTi 1.6-Came to me on Dunlop SP 2000Es up front and I think Pirelli P7s on the rear. These were slidetastic. hoopsontoast will remember how slidetastic they were. Admittedly, my poor skills could work with the unexpected. After all, I knew of a few 205s being written off, 2 of which resulted in the owners not being here today (I don't mean to go nun and kittens, but we need to remember they were called widowmakers for a reason). -We rebushed, redampered and retyred it. The dampers and beam solid mounting made a big difference, but the Toyo R888s also did. -The R888s were more playful than we thought -Being tight, we got some 14" wheels with Kwik Fit tyres. Despite decent suspension, it understeered, oversteered, it basically had a mind of its own. My mate span it 2 times, and it culminated with him rear ending someone. -After we repaired it, we spunked out on Toyo CF-1 tyres. These were a progressive and lovely match, which Tepper may testify to. Porshce 944 Turbo-It gripped like a mofo on the Michelin Pilot Sport 2s. -I was warned it would snap. I should have listened -One night, it snapped on me pinning the throttle on a straight icy road. Stupid I know. -It was more pleasant on the PS3s. Not as much outright grip, but more leeway on the limit BMW E46 M3-OK, I'm going beyond a few examples -I thought the car was great on Falken FK452s up front and 453s on the rear. I was wrong. The fronts wore funny and the rears didn't even make 7k. -The Michelin PS4Ss transformed the car. From something which slided in the wet yet was relatively composed, the car felt like it was driven by telepathy. They were superb. This was evidenced with me getting to the train on time while being late, and driving in the wet, as RetroWarwicK may remember on our 'ring trip. -It's a lovely steer on those Now for the 'podcast' evidence. -Chris Harris (who I'm not sure about) said that some tyre technologies have made some cars seem dull. His example was the BMW E30 M3. It was a car which was maybe a little spiky when it came out, but hit the sweet spot in the 90s. On 00s/10s tyres, it was almost a eunuch feeling car. It was too safe, and you would need to be monumentally stupid to make it break away. But that's my view and take on tyres  . |
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Apr 29, 2022 10:32:19 GMT
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I think a lot of the widow maker myths on older cars could be pretty much cured with decent modern tyres. Yes they break away in a much more violent fashion, but the breakaway point is at such a higher speed (and exacerbated in the wet) that you'd have to be doing something really silly to get anywhere near that point. I'd say the breakaway is more progressive in all honesty. I have 3 empirical examples and one 'podcast' example Pug 205 GTi 1.6-Came to me on Dunlop SP 2000Es up front and I think Pirelli P7s on the rear. These were slidetastic. hoopsontoast will remember how slidetastic they were. Admittedly, my poor skills could work with the unexpected. After all, I knew of a few 205s being written off, 2 of which resulted in the owners not being here today (I don't mean to go nun and kittens, but we need to remember they were called widowmakers for a reason). -We rebushed, redampered and retyred it. The dampers and beam solid mounting made a big difference, but the Toyo R888s also did. -The R888s were more playful than we thought -Being tight, we got some 14" wheels with Kwik Fit tyres. Despite decent suspension, it understeered, oversteered, it basically had a mind of its own. My mate span it 2 times, and it culminated with him rear ending someone. -After we repaired it, we spunked out on Toyo CF-1 tyres. These were a progressive and lovely match, which Tepper may testify to. Porshce 944 Turbo-It gripped like a mofo on the Michelin Pilot Sport 2s. -I was warned it would snap. I should have listened -One night, it snapped on me pinning the throttle on a straight icy road. Stupid I know. -It was more pleasant on the PS3s. Not as much outright grip, but more leeway on the limit BMW E46 M3-OK, I'm going beyond a few examples -I thought the car was great on Falken FK452s up front and 453s on the rear. I was wrong. The fronts wore funny and the rears didn't even make 7k. -The Michelin PS4Ss transformed the car. From something which slided in the wet yet was relatively composed, the car felt like it was driven by telepathy. They were superb. This was evidenced with me getting to the train on time while being late, and driving in the wet, as RetroWarwicK may remember on our 'ring trip. -It's a lovely steer on those Now for the 'podcast' evidence. -Chris Harris (who I'm not sure about) said that some tyre technologies have made some cars seem dull. His example was the BMW E30 M3. It was a car which was maybe a little spiky when it came out, but hit the sweet spot in the 90s. On 00s/10s tyres, it was almost a eunuch feeling car. It was too safe, and you would need to be monumentally stupid to make it break away. But that's my view and take on tyres . I think tyres are like shoes, plenty of good ones but the feeling with fit is subjective. For example, my E46 325 drives brilliantly on Bridgestone Potenza S001s, on factory 225/255 staggered rims but I've read feedback from people who hated them. I don't doubt that modern tyres can kill off what made an 80s car so exciting to drive. Some cars were designed to be on the limit of what was available at the time, as technology has evolved and what performance tyres can offer has improved the car is effectively running below its limit and no longer feels 'alive' in the way it did before. Safer, probably but not the same. |
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Apr 29, 2022 11:29:32 GMT
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the car: astra gte 16v the myth: great engines, handle like sh-t years of being tar'd with uninventive parroted internet "reviews", symptoms of terriblness which have yet to materialise having owned them consistently since 1999 when you read reviews from 1988/1989 its full of enthusiastic journalists talking about neutral drifts, tail out action and exhilarating driving experience on par with 205 gti weird.  Might have to disagree, I bought a new 16v in 1989 F496 PBH where are you? I thought it handled like a wet sponge, horrendous torque steer and lucky if I could get 6000 miles out of a set of front tyres, the Opel Manta GTE I bought new C919 DBM before the Astra was a peach, I did put a Bilstein suspension kit on it though |
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Apr 29, 2022 12:02:34 GMT
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I drive a Hillman Imp Slay me now its reputation isnt as bad as people make out but everyone and his dog have heard from a mate of a mates sister who had one how rubbish they were.Everyone seems to have a story. Take one to a show and ill guarantee that some numpty will go on about head gaskets and under steer and how they need a bag of sand to hold the front down and tbh its a load of utter testicles. Ive had some pretty rapid imps ,since 1992.And in all that time ive only had two h/g go and one was my own fault, i kept driving when it threw a belt after the alternator seized, and driven properly no need for blue circles finest either. The only issue was that mechanics of the time weren't used to the technology , all ali engines , rear engines and the like, so tried to treat them like the iron blocks they were used to. They are great cars to drive, light steering , really good visibility and they still feel capable even in today's traffic.  |
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mikek
Part of things
Posts: 146
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Apr 29, 2022 13:41:59 GMT
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That’s lovely. I had a Californian back in the day and loved it
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I'd say the breakaway is more progressive in all honesty. I have 3 empirical examples and one 'podcast' example Some ramblings from me. But that's my view and take on tyres . I think tyres are like shoes, plenty of good ones but the feeling with fit is subjective. For example, my E46 325 drives brilliantly on Bridgestone Potenza S001s, on factory 225/255 staggered rims but I've read feedback from people who hated them. I don't doubt that modern tyres can kill off what made an 80s car so exciting to drive. Some cars were designed to be on the limit of what was available at the time, as technology has evolved and what performance tyres can offer has improved the car is effectively running below its limit and no longer feels 'alive' in the way it did before. Safer, probably but not the same. They certainly are. Some folks look alot at the cost, which is fair in all honesty, others look at what compromise works with them, and go from there. Others will put new boots onto any car they buy, mainly as they don't know the history of what the tyres endured beforehand, which will skew the above . I had a full set of Bridgestones on my 325d as it's now on rims from an E89 Z4 M-Sport. They're not as progressive as the Goodyears or Michelins IMHO, but they do have alot of grip (maybe more than the aforementioned brands), come rain or shine, and once you know where the grip levels are, you can trust them. I guess it's the progressiveness of grip that makes folks like the big boys ; I never used to be a fan of that kind of progression when I started out driving. The Turanzas up front (RE005) grip lovely. The RFT RE050 A1s on the back were terrible! They did grip to be fair, but -The ride was awful. I actually felt sorry for my parent's beagle when I took him in the back of that. Despite going over speed bumps at near walking pace, and having irate drivers behind me, I could see him basically almost bouncing in his dog cage in the back. He's never had that in the M3, or in the now sold Mondeo estate. -It used to skip on bumps that you would take on a corner. New tarmac section etc. and it would skip like crazy. It would always get the grip back, but it was very unnerving. I was going to wear them down, but given -2 of the 4 17" wheels the car came on were cracked -1 of the 4 original MV3s had cracked too many times, so the car came with only 3. I knew I'd be annoyed if another one cracked again, combined with the hassle of changing them. It's now on PS4s on the rear (I couldn't justify the extra £40 a side for the PS5s). But it drives alot better! I don't mind pushing it on at times, and I love country roads in the car again. It drove nicer on the 17s if I am honest, but the wet weather grip is far better than it was on the Chinese part-worns the 17s had. But then, folks love Uniroyal RainSport 3s, and on the 2/3 cars I've had them on, I've found them disappointing. On an A-B comparison on one car, when I went to Goodyear F1 A3s, it felt like I rebushed and changed the shocks on the car. It was that dramatic a difference. |
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,597
Member is Online
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Apr 30, 2022 18:57:40 GMT
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I drive a Hillman Imp Slay me now its reputation isnt as bad as people make out but everyone and his dog have heard from a mate of a mates sister who had one how rubbish they were.Everyone seems to have a story. Take one to a show and ill guarantee that some numpty will go on about head gaskets and under steer and how they need a bag of sand to hold the front down and tbh its a load of utter testicles. Ive had some pretty rapid imps ,since 1992.And in all that time ive only had two h/g go and one was my own fault, i kept driving when it threw a belt after the alternator seized, and driven properly no need for blue circles finest either. The only issue was that mechanics of the time weren't used to the technology , all ali engines , rear engines and the like, so tried to treat them like the iron blocks they were used to. They are great cars to drive, light steering , really good visibility and they still feel capable even in today's traffic. Have they gone up pricewise just like minis? The more I look at them, the more I like one. But there are zero on german markets, maybe I could find one in the Netherlands, perhaps they were even sold there with LH steering? |
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I drive a Hillman Imp Slay me now its reputation isnt as bad as people make out but everyone and his dog have heard from a mate of a mates sister who had one how rubbish they were.Everyone seems to have a story. Take one to a show and ill guarantee that some numpty will go on about head gaskets and under steer and how they need a bag of sand to hold the front down and tbh its a load of utter testicles. Ive had some pretty rapid imps ,since 1992.And in all that time ive only had two h/g go and one was my own fault, i kept driving when it threw a belt after the alternator seized, and driven properly no need for blue circles finest either. The only issue was that mechanics of the time weren't used to the technology , all ali engines , rear engines and the like, so tried to treat them like the iron blocks they were used to. They are great cars to drive, light steering , really good visibility and they still feel capable even in today's traffic. Have they gone up pricewise just like minis? The more I look at them, the more I like one. But there are zero on german markets, maybe I could find one in the Netherlands, perhaps they were even sold there with LH steering? No as much or as far as minis but not far behind, you can get left hand drive ones, can’t say I’ve ever seen a German one but the owners club has a large and enthusiastic Dutch contingent |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,587
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Cant remember was it the Escort MK4 or Mk5 that dissolved quicker than a spoonful of sugar in a cup of tea? As for the Frontera it didnt help that they used 4 different petrol engines and 3 different diesel engines in the A series over its 6 year production run but they were Ok motors for the price Vectra B series, how can you design such a hatefull car after getting the Cavalier MK3s just right Recall that I had a couple of Mk4 Escorts that rotted across the bulkhead and the sagging it created was easily visible😬 Thought I would chime in on the Escort mk3/4 after just having allllll the welding done again (2nd time round). They do rot for fun. I think mine has had inner & outer arches, rear valence, outer sills and a bit of inner on one side, a bit of the rear floors this time, inner wings passenger side a bit of the floor at the front too. Before I owned it I'm sure it had new wings on too as they don't line up the best. Hard to believe it made it this far. I think it got lucky and was fixed by someone who either loved it or wanted a project to learn on, then I came a long and can't seem to let go haha. probably should have this time.... I think the mid 80s ones like mine C Reg mk3 and D reg Mk4s were bad for this. My Dad had a D reg that just rotted away one year. On the flip side its a nice Car to drive and its a nice easy classic to use too. Compared to my Capri its a bit boring but it has different charm about it I guess.     Here it is back in town undergoing VV carb maintenance. Runs lovely now. I think despite the rust problems there a good Car.  |
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brachunky
Scotland
Posts: 1,315
Club RR Member Number: 72
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There is a lot of love around for retro stuff considering the amounts of rust we have to deal with! Tis a bit nuts considering that if you did an engine or box rebuild, they would probably last for 10's of thousands of miles but the body falls in love with the welder and spray gun every few years  I think it's called passion or some other matter of the heart! |
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Recall that I had a couple of Mk4 Escorts that rotted across the bulkhead and the sagging it created was easily visible😬 Thought I would chime in on the Escort mk3/4 after just having allllll the welding done again (2nd time round). They do rot for fun. I think mine has had inner & outer arches, rear valence, outer sills and a bit of inner on one side, a bit of the rear floors this time, inner wings passenger side a bit of the floor at the front too. Before I owned it I'm sure it had new wings on too as they don't line up the best. Hard to believe it made it this far. I think it got lucky and was fixed by someone who either loved it or wanted a project to learn on, then I came a long and can't seem to let go haha. probably should have this time.... I think the mid 80s ones like mine C Reg mk3 and D reg Mk4s were bad for this. My Dad had a D reg that just rotted away one year. On the flip side its a nice Car to drive and its a nice easy classic to use too. Compared to my Capri its a bit boring but it has different charm about it I guess. Here it is back in town undergoing VV carb maintenance. Runs lovely now. I think despite the rust problems there a good Car. That's pretty much what my 85 Mk3 looked like back in the early 90s, including the rust, despite being less than 10 years old ... my 88 Mk4 XR fared a little better, having been cared for by its previous owner but even that was starting to succumb to the brown crust when I sold it in the late '90s. My 85 Orion was a pretty similar story to the Mk3, by the time I got it in the mid-90s she already had a patchwork quilt underneath, though luckily for me it had been done to a really good standard. They were a mild improvement on 70s Fords but it was marginal. As you say a real shame as they were/are good cars, easy to live with, simple and the CVHs just kept on going no matter how hard I treated them, I rebuilt the K-Jet lump on my XR and it ran like a peach and went like stink. Probably the 'factory' bodyshell lightening helped |
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had a mk1 UK MX5, amazing car to drive but each MOT was more and more painful, sills and rear inner arches rusted like mad, as did all the suspension arms and subframes. I think the mk2s suffered the same except had bad chassis legs too.
would have another MX5 but a MK3 [NC], no idea how they fare in the rust department
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My mum had a 1984 A-reg Mk3 XR3i, which was to me a lovely drive but I had to do a load of sill welding on it in the early 1990s.
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Last Edit: May 3, 2022 20:44:26 GMT by Rich
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 658
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had a mk1 UK MX5, amazing car to drive but each MOT was more and more painful, sills and rear inner arches rusted like mad, as did all the suspension arms and subframes. I think the mk2s suffered the same except had bad chassis legs too. would have another MX5 but a MK3 [NC], no idea how they fare in the rust department front chassis rails are what kill the nb mx5’s. Examples around 2003 seem to fair worse than earlier cars, but they are a hidden area so a bit of a lottery what you are getting unless you can put it on a four post lift and remove under trays etc. Mk3’s (nc’s) are prone to rust as well but don’t know if they are as bad. Incidentally my mum has an nd that she and my late dad bought brand new in 2015. Last year it was in for mot and service and the chap doing the test said it was remarkable and looked like a brand new car underneath. My mum does cherish it though and it is garaged and used when the weather is ok, and it has only covered around 7k since new, but there isn’t a spot on it. |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,839
Club RR Member Number: 174
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When I was 4 years old (1990) I was having a paddy in the back of my mums 4 year old Mk4 Escort and whilst jumping up and down fell through the floor. My dad ended up welding 4 new floorpan sections, inner sills and some other bits up.
MX5 NC's don't seem to rot quite as badly as the earlier cars, but on the other hand manage to have one of my favourite 4 cylinder engines that happens to be absolutely terrible from the factory.
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All 70s and 80s cars rotted out within four years
Not one make in my opinion was any different
That’s why we had such fun with newspaper and chicken wire and filler back in the day
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Last Edit: May 4, 2022 20:09:47 GMT by Mercdan68
Fraud owners club member
1999 Jaguar s type
1993 ford escort
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,597
Member is Online
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^ I once read about an old 911 with both sills filled with concrete for that reason! |
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A friend of my dad's poured an inch of concrete in the floor of a car once.
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Possibly one of the other great cars with polarised image is the Mazda RX... rotary engines and the reputation for tip wear... you'll find guys who never have an issue but equally those who wreck engines within a few thousand miles... the early ones could also rot(the red one below had virtually no chassis rails left)  |
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2014 - Audi A6 Avant 3.0Tdi Quattro
1958 - Chevrolet Apache Panel Truck
1959 - Plymouth Custom Suburban
1952 - Chevrolet 2dr Hardtop
1985 - Ford Econoline E350 Quadravan
2009 - Ovlov V70 2.5T
1970 - Cortina Mk2 Estate
2007 - Fiat Ducato LWB 120Multijet
2014 - Honda Civic 2.2 CTDi ES
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I think it's called passion or some other matter of the heart!
