Sammo
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,461
Club RR Member Number: 103
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Jan 18, 2020 22:53:35 GMT
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Evening At some point in the not too distant future I’m going to start doing some actual work to my XR2. The only problem is it lives in a rented garage a few miles from my house and there’s no electricity in there. I know the car needs some welding and I’d love to have a crack at it myself but the only option for that is to run my welder from a generator. Will it work or will I need one of those trailer generators that you used to see when the road was being dug up in the 90’s?? Cheers, Sammo
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Follow Me On Instagram - @parttimecartinkerer
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Jan 18, 2020 23:23:56 GMT
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It will work if the generator is powerful enough, but it isnt ideal.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Jan 18, 2020 23:27:38 GMT
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As long as the generator can supply the current the welder needs I don't see why not, most small welders use most of a 240v 13A supply so a generator rated around 240V 15A should be fine.
This will be a pretty hefty device around a 4KW engine.
Be carfull though a lot of them quote 4 or 5 kw but can only have max if 2kw per outlet, you will need at least 3kw.
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Last Edit: Jan 18, 2020 23:35:10 GMT by kevins
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Jan 18, 2020 23:56:21 GMT
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Hi, It's problematic, You need a generator that's more than twice the power you think it needs to be and still risk damage. When you strike the arc there's a surge of demand and if the generator can't pick up the revs quick enough to cover it one or both can be damaged. Even if the generator has AVR (automatic voltage regulation) it may still not be quick enough. Transformer MIGs are a bit more robust but because of the electronics in inverter welders they are more susceptible. So all in all I wouldn't risk it.
Colin
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Yes, I've had quite a bit of experience doing a huge amount of welding on my Carlton GSi in the garage in my allotment.
I used a 150A SIP transformer MIG.
A friend loaned me a decent size 5.5KVA diesel generator, which promptly ran on its own oil (max revs & impossible to turn off) and died, I was desperate to progress so risked my new 2.3KVA generator. It worked, but after maybe 200mm of weld went up in smoke. 2.3KVA was definitely too small.
I then bought a used 3.8KVA generator (cant remember the brand, cheap one) and welded up the rest of the project over the next couple of years. I don't think this is ideal, but it worked, I did take the precaution of never pushing it duty cycle wise, I always did some work, then let it run with no load to get plenty of cooling air through, then periodically turned it off for a while to cool.
My conclusion is that it definitely is possible without spending crazy money, my generator cost £100. I would buy the biggest you can, but experience says that 3.8KVA will manage.
Beware the misleading badged generators being sold currently, with some sellers telling lies, others just not being open. My friend bought one of them last week, model number included 8500 and he was lead to believe it was 8500W. There was no labelling at all on it about output. It could barely run anything so he investigated it, seems to be 2000W max, and as its supposedly 3 phase and has 3 240 outlets I suspect that the 2000W is all phases combined, so only a few hundred W from one outlet. Only any use for lighting. To be honest it was obvious to me just by the physical size that it wasnt 8500W but he hadnt realised.
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I'm no expert but I would agree with Colin that you risk damaging an inverter MIG due to electronics, generator output is highly unstable if you are pushing it beyond its ideal limits. I'd use a transformer machine.
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Sammo
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,461
Club RR Member Number: 103
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Jan 19, 2020 10:22:06 GMT
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Thanks for all the advice. Sounds like the size of generator I’d need would cost an arm and a leg Looks like I’ll have to figure something else out.
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Follow Me On Instagram - @parttimecartinkerer
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,829
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Jan 19, 2020 11:00:53 GMT
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Go and knock on any local houses and see if they'll let you run a extension lead for a few quid.
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Jan 19, 2020 13:39:25 GMT
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Thanks for all the advice. Sounds like the size of generator I’d need would cost an arm and a leg Looks like I’ll have to figure something else out. Not at all. The thing that stands out is that if you want to run an inverter welder you need to spend more, so don't.... Using a transformer machine is much lower risk and much lower cost. I know they are not fashionable now but transformer machines are reliable and relatively simple and robust. I welded 188 new pieces of metal into my Carlton, there is a thread on here somewhere. I used a low budget welder and a £100 second hand generator and a bit of care. The quality of the welding wasn't compromised, good penetration achieved in the heavier chassis sections. don't be put off, it is possible on a small budget. A friend of mine is doing the same to weld his MK1 Astra with no problems.
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Jan 21, 2020 22:53:55 GMT
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I recently tested my newly bought R-Tech 180 amp MIG running from my ‘Kipor’ 2800w inverter suitcase generator - worked fine...
A few things to note: - The Kipor is a Honda clone, had it years, been reliable. - Inverter generators create a stable sine wave electronically. - Inverter generators usually have a ‘Smart Throttle’, and run the engine as slowly as they can, to reduce noise and fuel burn. The Kipor has a switch to override it, if needed. - Most non-inverter generators (even AVR ones) use a mechanical governor, and attempt to run the engine at a constant speed to get a constant voltage/frequency output - and fail when loads suddenly come and go (like welding!) - I’ve tested a few with a volt meter and oscilloscope - nasty! - I tested with Smart Throttle on, it coped ok. - I tested welding car body thickness metal only, as I don’t need to weld thicker tin while running from the generator. - Clearly the generator max output is below the current needed for the welder at full tilt, see above. - The R-Tech is a (rather good) IGBT welder (not transformer). - Open frame generators are noisy, crude things in my opinion!
Also, remember to buy a fire extinguisher or two to live at the garage, BEFORE you start cutting or welding.
If I can help further (eg test something), let me know.
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Jan 21, 2020 23:13:44 GMT
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A guy that used to work for me borrowed my Honda generator and old 160A pick-a-brand gas welder to do some small bits of work on his M3, due to the same situation. As has been said, it isn't ideal, but not impossible. I don't think I'd attempt any heavy or long duration work though. Another friend that was a engineering welder for 20 years did the actual welding for him, and had there been any complications, high risk or poor supply, neither of them would have been satisfied so on that grounds I'd say it's fine if you're in a pinch.
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Mar 11, 2020 15:41:03 GMT
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I did some work for a couple of friends who have a small farm near where I live. Since then I have had numerous calls from other farmer in my area who want equipment welded up. Some of the implements are pretty good size and difficult to move to my house for the repairs. If I build a trailer and can run a couple of different welders off a generator than I can make shorttime of the fix.
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Dec 30, 2020 19:34:35 GMT
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If you have a generator that is strong enough, why not? Buying welding machines can be difficult, especially if you know absolutely nothing about them like I did before. But I was able to learn with the help of some sites and forums. You might also need a welding cart, like me, or you can use my advice and go to the site afterpaints.com where they will explain everything to you and show you even where you can buy them cheaper but and not only. The site explains everything about the best welding carts and all their flaws and pluses. Thanks to this site, you can buy yourself an excellent welding cart, and you will not be deceived.
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Last Edit: Jan 13, 2021 19:57:32 GMT by kukuiiika
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