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Dec 10, 2019 18:31:18 GMT
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Most mercs are just Renault's Thats the problem... it's all wibblepoo French tech Smart 4/4 is basically a twingo the new A class uses one renualt engine and its poo and the citan van is basically a renault the X class is based on a navara and the rest of the mers are RWD/4WD which precludes them from being renaults which IIRC are predominatley wrong wheel drive. being front or rear drive does not preclude the use of a certain engine, the new sprinters are FWD unless you spec LWB which are RWD only, that's still a 2143cc OM651, with a 9 speed auto or 6 speed manual. sure the 2.3 in the X class is a Nissan lump just like the chassis, but the 3.0 is merc.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Dec 10, 2019 19:01:55 GMT
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Most modern cars seem to be built for the lowest common denominator and are getting further away from the sheer joy of driving. Too many driver aids - honestly, if you don't know when to turn the lights/wipers on I'd argue that you should not be in charge of a car at all! Wasn't that always the case though? The Imp in your profile pic, for instance was a basic economy car built for people who were just happy to own a car at all. Maybe we're guilty of looking at everything with the proverbial rose tinted glasses, or perhaps many of you are too young to remember how really un-reliable cars used to be. Winter mornings used to be full of the sounds of people struggling to start their cars. Cars would rust in just a couple of years. Despite all the stereotypes over french cars, I never had any problems with my old MK1 Clio that couldn't be put down to user error or natural wear and tear. Now drive a Fiat which has the unfortunate combination of electric power steering and the worlds smallest battery, but I'd call that a design flaw rather than unreliability. If you drive a car like that on lots of short trips in cold weather then the battery will drain and the power steering fails (not fun when your half way round a roundabout!) but if you're sensible and drive long enough to charge the battery then it works fine. I agree totally on the automatic wipers and lights though! This. I used to do 10,000 miles a month in a car over varying roads. These days I do 20k a year and most of it is on the motorway. From even 5 years ago, the driving standards have dropped. I don't think driver aids are the issue. The issue IMHO is traffic, where the aids become just that. It's fine for you folks in the countryside, but for those travelling the country on some of the busiest motorways, it's a royal pain. Dash cams while being handy seem to have motorists taking liberties all because they have a video recorder in their car. You can't really take public transport away from the Big Smoke as it's simply expensive and impractical. And so the roads just get busier. I know of people who have tried to work from home for this reason and to reduce on traffic and cost, but again, that's not on a business' agenda at all.
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Smart 4/4 is basically a twingo the new A class uses one renualt engine and its poo and the citan van is basically a renault the X class is based on a navara and the rest of the mers are RWD/4WD which precludes them from being renaults which IIRC are predominatley wrong wheel drive. being front or rear drive does not preclude the use of a certain engine, the new sprinters are FWD unless you spec LWB which are RWD only, that's still a 2143cc OM651, with a 9 speed auto or 6 speed manual. sure the 2.3 in the X class is a Nissan lump just like the chassis, but the 3.0 is merc. you could be right, the dealership where i work doesn't do vans or commercials
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 11, 2019 12:21:43 GMT
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being front or rear drive does not preclude the use of a certain engine, the new sprinters are FWD unless you spec LWB which are RWD only, that's still a 2143cc OM651, with a 9 speed auto or 6 speed manual. sure the 2.3 in the X class is a Nissan lump just like the chassis, but the 3.0 is merc. you could be right, the dealership where i work doesn't do vans or commercials I'd take the Renault engines over Mercs own any day. They're both curse word, but the Renault is like a small hard dry dog turd compared to the Merc been a Great Dane with a case of the runs turd.
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Dec 11, 2019 13:05:09 GMT
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I think it all depends on your perception of reliability.
Land Rover used have a fantastic reputation for reliability with the series ones but i think in hindsight they were just very fixable and that was the expectation in those days. Same with VW and the Beetle. In other parts of the world they detest Landrover, South Africa being one.
These days alot of people would count a blown light bulb as unreliable especially if you have to remove half the car to replace it.
Lots of manufacturers have had issues but its how it is dealt with or kept quiet.
I've always thought element within the surveys should be what type of person the own is. An owner of a BMW might have higher expectations than that of a Ford or something.
There is also no doubt cars have become unbelievably more complex these days.
You mention vanos and Nilskal. These were both problems on the E36 not just the 5 series.
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bazzateer
Posted a lot
Imping along sans Vogue
Posts: 3,653
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Dec 11, 2019 13:28:25 GMT
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Most modern cars seem to be built for the lowest common denominator and are getting further away from the sheer joy of driving. Too many driver aids - honestly, if you don't know when to turn the lights/wipers on I'd argue that you should not be in charge of a car at all! Wasn't that always the case though? The Imp in your profile pic, for instance was a basic economy car built for people who were just happy to own a car at all. My point (admittedly poorly made) was that today cars seem to be made almost with the assumption that the driver need not engage their brain whereas even in the days of the Imp, you had to actually think quite a bit and be aware of what you and the car were doing in order to drive.
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1968 Singer Chamois Sport 1972 Sunbeam Imp Sport 1976 Datsun 260Z 2+2 1998 Peugeot Boxer Pilote motorhome 2003 Rover 75 1.8 Club SE (daily) 2006 MG ZT 190+ (another daily) 2007 BMW 530d Touring M Sport (tow car)
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Dec 11, 2019 14:33:53 GMT
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I think it all depends on your perception of reliability. Land Rover used have a fantastic reputation for reliability with the series ones but i think in hindsight they were just very fixable and that was the expectation in those days. Same with VW and the Beetle. In other parts of the world they detest Landrover, South Africa being one. These days alot of people would count a blown light bulb as unreliable especially if you have to remove half the car to replace it. Lots of manufacturers have had issues but its how it is dealt with or kept quiet. I've always thought element within the surveys should be what type of person the own is. An owner of a BMW might have higher expectations than that of a Ford or something. There is also no doubt cars have become unbelievably more complex these days. You mention vanos and Nilskal. These were both problems on the E36 not just the 5 series. I had a case of this last night, Daughter is moaning and groaning because her car (14 year old street ka) is "unreliable" in the 2 years she has had it, It started miss firing when she drove it through a 9 inch deep puddle (read small lake) at 60 mph when she first got it ( she drove it home and I just replaced all the ignition as it was so cheap). The indicator switch started playing up (occasionally needed a couple of goes to get it to work), secondhand part fixed that. And now the engine check light has come on with no obvious effect to how it drives at all (code says lambda sensor heater has failed so that's not going to be too difficult to fix). We had to point out to her that the first cars we had regularly stopped altogether, leaked just about everything and had literally had holes in them!
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Dec 11, 2019 14:51:21 GMT
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^^^ that's daughter/teenager code for can I have a new car for Christmas!!
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Dec 11, 2019 15:29:07 GMT
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If she saves up for one!
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Dec 11, 2019 20:27:07 GMT
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^^^ that's daughter/teenager code for can I have a new car for Christmas!! Yeah I was thinking that. Buy her a modern Vauxhall, she will soon learn what unreliable is. I don't know anyone that's had a post 2000's Vauxhall that hasn't had to have something major repaired several times a year. I had a 6 week old insignia hire car for 3 day's, it bloody broke down!
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Dec 11, 2019 20:46:45 GMT
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Ive got a new VW Polo for a couple of weeks, so I thought id have a look to see what the general opinion is about them. It seems they don't have the whole reliability reputation I thought they would, and personally, to drive it its not very nice, probably just a typical modern car, you get the feeling that you are controlling it rather than driving it. I'm not going to say its a bad car, its not, far from it. I just don't like it. I certainly wouldn't buy one.
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Last Edit: Dec 11, 2019 20:47:41 GMT by bmcnut
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Dec 11, 2019 21:48:34 GMT
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A guy who works near me has a 2003 Polo TDI, which has clocked up 183,000 miles and still going reasonably well, despite a bit of rust coming through here and there.
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Dec 12, 2019 11:41:16 GMT
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I don't have much input on BMW's but I think you could fill pages with faults on all makes/models they are just not built to last, I do have issues when its major drive train faults with parts that should easily do 100k plus failing at 40/50/60K and the manufacturers doing all they can to wriggle out of fixing the problems
I'm a Vauxhall man through and through, have been since the early 70s but I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a new Vauxhall now, Vauxhall or the dealers don't seem to know what customer service is anymore!
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Dec 12, 2019 17:21:06 GMT
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I don't have much input on BMW's but I think you could fill pages with faults on all makes/models they are just not built to last, I do have issues when its major drive train faults with parts that should easily do 100k plus failing at 40/50/60K and the manufacturers doing all they can to wriggle out of fixing the problems I'm a Vauxhall man through and through, have been since the early 70s but I wouldn't recommend anyone to buy a new Vauxhall now, Vauxhall or the dealers don't seem to know what customer service is anymore! TBH I’m not sure I’d buy ANY new car*, the newer the vehicle I’ve had, certainly recently, the more faults and problems I’ve had, and the more difficult it has been to fix, and thats regardless of manufacturer. *Not that I can afford to anyway!
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Dec 12, 2019 18:15:23 GMT
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The Volvo d5- if it was a biscuit it would be a hobnob. dunk me again!!!!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,842
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Dec 12, 2019 20:07:33 GMT
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The Volvo d5- if it was a biscuit it would be a hobnob. dunk me again!!!! Apart from all the premature cambelt failures that more often than not scrap the head?
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alfaboy
Part of things
stopping smoking
Posts: 126
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Dec 12, 2019 22:45:39 GMT
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Theres a theme running through lots of newer cars, the desire for striking styling and "connectivity" have forced the manufacturers to change their approach to what makes a good car. They have to make them self park, read texts, self brake, lane control etc etc etc Thats what people want, its what sells a car these days, people don't own their own cars anymore, its all 3yr lease,and pcp. They have to have a recycling policy for every car they make. I think mid 2000s is the crossover time, my E90 330i is infinity better than every E36 and E46 i have owned, but i fear its the newest car i will ever own, its a 2006 car, last of the "built from solid" cars.
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I have an idea for a unique alfa. . . . and i think it might just work.
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Dec 15, 2019 13:31:44 GMT
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Cars have evolved, you just need to pick the sweet-spot that works for you. 60s/early 70s - individual styling, so-so economy and performance (old engine technology), reasonable reliability but needed regular fettling, maintainance very simple. late 70s/80s - as above but needs less fettling. 90s/early-00s more refined, better economy (sometimes), very little space when doing maintenance. late-00s onwards complex & fragile electronics, DIY diagnostics & maintenance near impossible apart from basic consumables. Many examples of poor design (having to remove front bumper to replace a headlight bulb !!) BMW 2005+ are my bugbear. Cute lights (using bmw-specific leds) which fail after 10 years - industry standard leds never fail, starter motors are 100k miles consumables - and you need to remove complex inlet manifolds & fragile pipes (dealers quote 4+ hours labour, allow £100 for gaskets & pipework, starter is extra). Replacement batteries need to be dealer-coded after installation (same for the unreliable ABS pumps), Very active forum - standard advice is - buy a BMW specific code reader - then buy an obsolete XP laptop and install dealer software so you can run diagnostics. Madness !
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Dec 15, 2019 13:36:31 GMT
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I had a 2000 520i, most reliable car I've owned and I bought it at 198k, scrapped at 230k after splitting the tank running over something. Friend of mine has a 2010 320d, never ending array of problems with it. I'd happily have an e39 again, in fact I'm toying with selling the Mondeo ST in favour of one.
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Dec 16, 2019 18:20:42 GMT
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There’s a couple of ads on radio for ford at the mo, where the passenger is complaining that the radio wont connect to her phone and only plays cd’s, and that the aircon/ heating doesn't work Apparently in our throwaway world this is sufficient to consign said unknown vehicle make to the scrapyard. Having driven many makes/models/trim specs over the years, a working heater is a bonus and even now i’m driving a car with a battery dab radio sliding up and down the dash!
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