Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Oct 17, 2019 13:14:28 GMT
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Hello All, My E36 Tourer has developed the above symptoms - its an M43 318 manual. Are there any specific symptoms that would indicate (for example) wheel balance as opposed to suspension or drive shaft coupling etc.? Can't see any issues with tyres although they are not premium. Also... a bit of a left field suggestion - I recently removed the front spolier air ducts and haven't refitted them(long story!). Could it be turbulence?? The timing is right for the two to be linked and it got me thinking. Sorry for the randomness but if I can narrow it down a bit based on others' knowledge that would help me out. Nick
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Carbs 'n chrome
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Oct 17, 2019 14:10:14 GMT
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Hi, At 60 mph it will likely be tyres, dampers or play in the steering in that order. Check the tyres for distorted tread, jack a wheel up until there's a gap between the tyre and road and rotate the wheel, check the gap stays the same around and across the width of the tyre. If there is then it will be exacerbated by any play in the steering as it bounces backwards and forwards in the play. Look for weak or soft damping action in the dampers.
Colin
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Oct 17, 2019 15:13:32 GMT
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Thanks Colin. It also occurs to me at this point that the car may be running a non-standard diff as 3.5k revs for circa 65 mph seems rather excessive when I think about it!
I'm pretty sure tyres are good though. Would weak dampers really exhibit severe vibration on a smooth M-Way?
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Carbs 'n chrome
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Oct 17, 2019 16:41:59 GMT
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Hi, It's a bit of a triangle, weak dampers can't control vibrations set up by distorted tyres and play in the steering linkage allow it to rattle in that play. So you need to break the triangle.
Colin
Edit: Steering shake is associated with a speed of 60 to 70MPH, although it can be felt at 40MPH but it's not obvious. It's not a product of the revs.
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Last Edit: Oct 17, 2019 16:46:15 GMT by colnerov
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Oct 17, 2019 16:58:18 GMT
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put another set of wheels on the front and try again, or if you don't have another set swap fronts to rears.
I would go with inbalanced tyres first unless like others have said, the tyre(s) have any distortion.
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Oct 17, 2019 19:32:44 GMT
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put another set of wheels on the front and try again, or if you don't have another set swap fronts to rears. I would go with inbalanced tyres first unless like others have said, the tyre(s) have any distortion. Hope you're right Rapidyellow. Will try that and report back - really hope it is that as I've been doing a bit more research and it seems to be a common E36 thing and some people seem to chase it for months/ £s with no solution.
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Carbs 'n chrome
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Oct 17, 2019 19:35:42 GMT
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its a "no cost" suggestion, so gotta be worth a go.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Oct 17, 2019 19:41:57 GMT
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I had a wierd vibration at about 58mph (annoying when you’re towing) - went to do a F/R swap and found the huge bulge on the inside of the tyre...
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Last Edit: Oct 17, 2019 19:42:16 GMT by Phil H
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Oct 17, 2019 21:21:25 GMT
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The 60mph wobble is pretty common on BMWs. I've had it on an e34, e36 and an e39 and all of them have been due to knackered bottom suspension arm bushes or balljoints. By all means try the free options like swapping wheels, but my money's on worn suspension.
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Oct 18, 2019 19:27:03 GMT
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Thanks BB - yeah, have come across that too. Never had it on my E30s though and this is the first Bimmer I've had since. My searches have brought up a few forum posts relating to E34s and E39s for sale with the 55-60 wobble but people seem to say you can 'drive through it' -but I certainly can't drive through mine. When the steering wheel is juddering at 70+ I prefer to back off!
Will report back in due course. I don't want to through much money at it though. It's only a temp while the Vovlo wagon is having its suspension refreshed (ironically).
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Carbs 'n chrome
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Check your tyres haven’t gone out of round. My Celica had decent tread left on them and they weren’t old but the back 2 had gone seriously out. MOT man said he’s seen quite a lot recently but no idea why.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Is the vibration accelleratioj dependant, or does it happen at 60 irrespective of it cruising, braking etc?
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Oct 19, 2019 19:44:03 GMT
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Is the vibration accelleratioj dependant, or does it happen at 60 irrespective of it cruising, braking etc? Irrespective, Chas. As suggested above by Colin, (I think this was what he meant) I did the thing today with the front tyres whereby you jack up the car just enough to rotate the wheel - both of them are not quite true in that they will rotate freely without touching the ground for @90 degrees, then catch slightly for another 90, then rotate freely etc. I'm guessing this plus maybe some sub-optimal suspension components/ steering rack is coming together to cause the problem. I can't find any dodgy bushes/ drop links though... hmmmmm.
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Carbs 'n chrome
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ChasR
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Club RR Member Number: 170
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Oct 19, 2019 22:10:01 GMT
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In that case, I'd do the following and feedback:
1) Check the bushes for compliance. Hotspots are the Lollypop (front Lower Arm) bushes, and the Rear Track control Arm Bushes (RTABs). The latter being gone you would know about ; the car will rear steer. The fronts can have play if rubber; Only genuine or better still, M3 items don't seem to to do this. 2)Check the balljoints in the lower arms and the track control arms for play. 3)Check the date of the tyres. Are they part-worns fitted by yourself, or was the car sitting for some time prior to you getting them? 4) Check the Guibo (rubber Prop Doughnut coupling) as well as the centre prop bearing. An out of balance prop on any car will make it vibrate like crazy to the point of it being undriveable, but I've not heard of guibos making the car that unbearable. That said, a slight amount of untrueness on my Stag propshaft make the car vibrate like crazy until I sorted it.
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Oct 19, 2019 22:28:11 GMT
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Also try swapping rear wheels to the front.
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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Oct 20, 2019 21:00:12 GMT
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Thanks Chas and Nudger for your help. Might be a few days before I update but will check as advised.
A couple of things to ponder on that might not be significant:
1 - When first approaching 'vibrate speed', I can spank it through the gears up the M-Way slip road for eg, and be at 70 for a quarter mile before it starts - then it comes on until I back off to sub-60 and is there again straight away when I go beyond 60ish. Weird.
2 - Can propshafts become 'out of balance' under normal driving? It's been fine till the past week.
Sorry for my ignorance - I'm finding all the input really helpful.
Cheers, Nick
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Carbs 'n chrome
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ChasR
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Club RR Member Number: 170
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Oct 21, 2019 19:34:57 GMT
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About point 2. it's unlikely. However, a knackered prop coupling of sorts can cause the prop to run out of true, which will give the impression of it being unbalanced.
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Jem45
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,021
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OK - said I would update. Finally had the opportunity to get it on the ramp today and there was loads of lay in the near side ball joint so that is looking like the culprit. Will change both sides on Friday and confirm. Thanks all.
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Carbs 'n chrome
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heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
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Club RR Member Number: 111
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If that doesn't get it sorted, look at your mating face. The one between the disc and hub. Not sure about old beemers. but that's the culprit on old frauds quite often. An innocuous amount of rust in there is enough to give you a knee tremble at about 50
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