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May 18, 2019 15:31:24 GMT
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Tbh I can’t believe more don’t get tugged here. That camber thing can never be right! There is hardly any of the contact patch of the tyre on the road. They must handle like poo. If you had 50% of the tyre bald you expect to get nicked, surely if it’s not even touching the road it amounts to the same. I’m just too old for it I guess, but I just think it looks sh1t
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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May 18, 2019 15:41:29 GMT
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Dez you cant compare German Tüv standards to the MOT testing limits. If you had compared the Tüv to the UK construction and use regs however, that's more of an equal example. The UK mot is a complete waste of time really, as all it is for is making sure the vehicle meets minimum road safety standards, at the time of test The amount of modified cars (badly or very well) that can scrape through the MOT, may not even be road legal (This isnt a nasty post, just intended to air an opinion of a MOT tester )
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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May 18, 2019 15:49:06 GMT
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Dez you cant compare German Tüv standards to the MOT testing limits. If you had compared the Tüv to the UK construction and use regs however, that's more of an equal example. The UK mot is a complete waste of time really, as all it is for is making sure the vehicle meets minimum road safety standards, at the time of test The amount of modified cars (badly or very well) that can scrape through the MOT, may not even be road legal (This isnt a nasty post, just intended to air an opinion of a MOT tester ) I’m comparing them ecause the EU, the uk govt and the german govt that have entered into an agreement (along with all other member states) that they are a compatible and comparable standard, even if in reality they’re not. Everybody into cars knows the tuv is ridiculously strict compared to our mot, and a controle technique has historically been fairly lax compared to both. The point is that agreement exists and is supposed to be honoured, but the german police are choosing to ignore it.
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May 18, 2019 17:39:06 GMT
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Tbh I can’t believe more don’t get tugged here. That camber thing can never be right! There is hardly any of the contact patch of the tyre on the road. They must handle like poo. If you had 50% of the tyre bald you expect to get nicked, surely if it’s not even touching the road it amounts to the same. I’m just too old for it I guess, but I just think it looks sh1t This is also my post, so i'll just quote it and leave it at that.
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Rob M
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
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May 18, 2019 18:56:49 GMT
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There have been numerous changes to our MOT system over a number of years now, as has been the case with other EU countries, in the pursuit of full harmonisation across the member states. As I have interpreted it, there will eventually be a minimum set standard of testing across the EU so that all vehicles tested meet the set out requirements of roadworthiness.What it does not appear to do, however, is stop individual nations implementing additional tests that go above and beyond the set standard requirements. In context, our MOT is every year for vehicles over three years old but in France it is two. I do not see why an individual nation cannot and will not test to standards that go beyond the EU wide agreed ones. It is quite posible that harmonisation will not have countries deleting certain tests, more likely the case that they would remain as before and be additional to the new standards.If somebody came across to the UK from Europe with what looked like a dangerously modified pile of cack, everybody would agree that the vehicle be stopped from being driven here. We do not know exactly how safe or unsafe the mods were on those impounded cars but, as one clearly had wheels protruding from its arches, you would suspect that others there would not be overly kosher either. They probably fell foul of German TUV requirements that go beyond the set and agreed standard. Lessons learned and all that, I suppose.
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May 18, 2019 19:16:59 GMT
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There have been numerous changes to our MOT system over a number of years now, as has been the case with other EU countries, in the pursuit of full harmonisation across the member states. As I have interpreted it, there will eventually be a minimum set standard of testing across the EU so that all vehicles tested meet the set out requirements of roadworthiness.What it does not appear to do, however, is stop individual nations implementing additional tests that go above and beyond the set standard requirements. In context, our MOT is every year for vehicles over three years old but in France it is two. I do not see why an individual nation cannot and will not test to standards that go beyond the EU wide agreed ones. It is quite posible that harmonisation will not have countries deleting certain tests, more likely the case that they would remain as before and be additional to the new standards.If somebody came across to the UK from Europe with what looked like a dangerously modified pile of cack, everybody would agree that the vehicle be stopped from being driven here. We do not know exactly how safe or unsafe the mods were on those impounded cars but, as one clearly had wheels protruding from its arches, you would suspect that others there would not be overly kosher either. They probably fell foul of German TUV requirements that go beyond the set and agreed standard. Lessons learned and all that, I suppose. Without taking things off topic(ish), with regards to vehicles being unsafe I still cant get my head around MOT exemption for cars over 40 years old. You wonder how some of these unsafe mods would pass an MOT, but if there is no MOT on a car with undeclared mods, who knows what those mods are, or the condition of the brakes etc etc.
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May 18, 2019 20:10:13 GMT
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It is what it is You are asking for the wrong type of attention when you drive a car like that I'm pretty sure stretched tyres and rubbing arches etc are illegal in this country so if your driving a questionable car your going to get pulled Now if you drive that car in the UK the chances are you will at some point get pulled over you could get points and a fine So why would you be so surprised if it happens in I different country
I've been to Germany many times and other parts of Europe and I know I need to abide by there laws or expect big fines etc I've been to Germany in what would be classed as winter months with my summer tyres and I've not been caught but I except that if I was stopped I could get a fine and maybe more We all know about all the nonsense stuff you need to take with you in the boot if your driving through France But how many people take the chance that they won't get stopped ?
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1992 240 Volvo T8 1955 Cadillac 1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold ) 1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2 1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec" 1971 VW bay window (work in progress) 1999 Mazda 323F 1987 Jaguar XJ12 All current
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May 18, 2019 20:22:12 GMT
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There have been numerous changes to our MOT system over a number of years now, as has been the case with other EU countries, in the pursuit of full harmonisation across the member states. As I have interpreted it, there will eventually be a minimum set standard of testing across the EU so that all vehicles tested meet the set out requirements of roadworthiness.What it does not appear to do, however, is stop individual nations implementing additional tests that go above and beyond the set standard requirements. In context, our MOT is every year for vehicles over three years old but in France it is two. I do not see why an individual nation cannot and will not test to standards that go beyond the EU wide agreed ones. It is quite posible that harmonisation will not have countries deleting certain tests, more likely the case that they would remain as before and be additional to the new standards.If somebody came across to the UK from Europe with what looked like a dangerously modified pile of cack, everybody would agree that the vehicle be stopped from being driven here. We do not know exactly how safe or unsafe the mods were on those impounded cars but, as one clearly had wheels protruding from its arches, you would suspect that others there would not be overly kosher either. They probably fell foul of German TUV requirements that go beyond the set and agreed standard. Lessons learned and all that, I suppose. But we are leaving the EU...... maybe
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May 18, 2019 21:21:14 GMT
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^and not before time. I never thought joining the common market was a good idea.
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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May 18, 2019 22:07:14 GMT
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Some interesting thoughts and perspective on it, I expected the usual negativity towards stretch and camber and air ride (don't disagree with it tbh) but it's nice to see some more informed opinion, different information and lesser known facts.
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May 18, 2019 22:11:39 GMT
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^and not before time. I never thought joining the common market was a good idea. Was talking about this sort of thing at work last week. Almost ended in fisty-cuffs.
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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May 18, 2019 22:43:03 GMT
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I can't understand how they can force a vehicle from another country that is only visiting their country briefly, to be subjected to their own vehicle testing. There is no legality in that surely. If they had been in the country more than the alotted time then yes that's understandable but sending a car that's been in the country for a day for a TuV breaks every convention and European agreement there is i would have thought.
I have driven in Germany in a modified car and in convoy without a problem. One of the cars did get banned from the Nurburgring for noise limit breaking (screamer pipe off the turbo). The point being if you don't draw too much attention to yourselves then it shouldn't be a problem.
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I can't understand how they can force a vehicle from another country that is only visiting their country briefly, to be subjected to their own vehicle testing. There is no legality in that surely. If they had been in the country more than the alotted time then yes that's understandable but sending a car that's been in the country for a day for a TuV breaks every convention and European agreement there is i would have thought. I have driven in Germany in a modified car and in convoy without a problem. One of the cars did get banned from the Nurburgring for noise limit breaking (screamer pipe off the turbo). The point being if you don't draw too much attention to yourselves then it shouldn't be a problem. Of course they can force it. No different to say a European lorry driver being stopped by our police & escorted to a VOSA inspection area at the roadside. I dare say their country they are not subject to our MOT laws, but if they are on our road they should be.
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skinnylew
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,546
Club RR Member Number: 11
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But what would stop them doing it to every single foreign car visiting the country, as someone previously said they have laws prohibiting the use of certain brands of tyres on certain cars, all paperwork needed for any modifications etc, EVERY car from France would fail most from any other nation.
The agreement Europe wide is if it has passed the relevant test in it's home country then it meets the basic safety standards to drive in all nations. You don't have a queue of cars at the border with Germany changing tyres in March because it's considered 'Winter' in Germany but France don't give a merde......
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Last Edit: May 19, 2019 7:50:41 GMT by skinnylew
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Well obviously resources would stop them pulling every vehicle, just the same as our VOSA cannot check every foreign lorry. But if you knew or see a convoy of stuff that’s looks ‘dodgy’ you’d tug em’ simple
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,590
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That tyre brand thing is a legend. This practice is not the rule, usually you can buy any brand of tyres. Only few cars have some approval for certain tyres, but I can´t really explain. I think it came from times when there were only a few high speed tyres. So in order to guarantee road safety the car manufacturer says 'Use tyre xy', and if you want a new brand you need to ask for an approval from them. There may be other reasons for exceptions, but it´s definitely not a strict rule to be limited to only a few brands in general.
There is also no strict rule to use winter tyres, this would exclude the growing popular all season tyres. But when you cause damage or a road block because of unsafe tyres, you will get trouble, weather with police or your insurance company.
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ZXRob
Europe
Posts: 1,193
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as someone previously said they have laws prohibiting the use of certain brands of tyres on certain cars You don't have a queue of cars at the border with Germany changing tyres in March because it's considered 'Winter' in Germany but France don't give a merde...... I don't know where people get this information from but just to clear something up. There is no law in Germany prohibiting the use of certain BRANDS on certain cars. You are not allowed to fit any old tyre size on the car and must fit what is specified in your cars papers. If you fit a different size tyre or wheel you can get it tested and put into your cars papers so that you are allowed to drive them. Of course it has to pass this test so things like a 10" wide wheel with a 195/35 tyre stretched over it on a polo would obviously not pass. Onto Winter tyres and when you need them. Yes it is a legal requirement but apart from on hire cars (Avis etc) there is no date specifying when you need to have them on. It works as simple as this, if it snows and you get stuck and block a road with summer tyres on you get fined and 1 point. If you crash in the snow and have summer tyres on then you come into problems with your insurance and the police. Easily avoided for example if you decide to drive from sunny Scunthorpe to Freezing Freiburg then put winter tyres on.
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as someone previously said they have laws prohibiting the use of certain brands of tyres on certain cars You don't have a queue of cars at the border with Germany changing tyres in March because it's considered 'Winter' in Germany but France don't give a merde...... I don't know where people get this information from but just to clear something up. There is no law in Germany prohibiting the use of certain BRANDS on certain cars. You are not allowed to fit any old tyre size on the car and must fit what is specified in your cars papers. If you fit a different size tyre or wheel you can get it tested and put into your cars papers so that you are allowed to drive them. Of course it has to pass this test so things like a 10" wide wheel with a 195/35 tyre stretched over it on a polo would obviously not pass. Onto Winter tyres and when you need them. Yes it is a legal requirement but apart from on hire cars (Avis etc) there is no date specifying when you need to have them on. It works as simple as this, if it snows and you get stuck and block a road with summer tyres on you get fined and 1 point. If you crash in the snow and have summer tyres on then you come into problems with your insurance and the police. Easily avoided for example if you decide to drive from sunny Scunthorpe to Freezing Freiburg then put winter tyres on. I guess as a man in Germany, you could comment and interpret more of this all. And hopefully it is a thread that can educate, rather than berate.
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ZXRob
Europe
Posts: 1,193
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I don't know where people get this information from but just to clear something up. There is no law in Germany prohibiting the use of certain BRANDS on certain cars. You are not allowed to fit any old tyre size on the car and must fit what is specified in your cars papers. If you fit a different size tyre or wheel you can get it tested and put into your cars papers so that you are allowed to drive them. Of course it has to pass this test so things like a 10" wide wheel with a 195/35 tyre stretched over it on a polo would obviously not pass. Onto Winter tyres and when you need them. Yes it is a legal requirement but apart from on hire cars (Avis etc) there is no date specifying when you need to have them on. It works as simple as this, if it snows and you get stuck and block a road with summer tyres on you get fined and 1 point. If you crash in the snow and have summer tyres on then you come into problems with your insurance and the police. Easily avoided for example if you decide to drive from sunny Scunthorpe to Freezing Freiburg then put winter tyres on. I guess as a man in Germany, you could comment and interpret more of this all. And hopefully it is a thread that can educate, rather than berate. It is also something I do every day. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask. It is a shame that these guys got stopped and also that I didn't know about it when it happened as the service station where they were stranded is 10 minutes from me and I would of helped out. I do think that the cars would also be illegal on the UK but that is a risk we have all taken.
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May 19, 2019 11:50:27 GMT
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If they hadn't been pulled over, and Darren had posted pics of them we'd all be calling them epic, awesome, perfect stance etc. Just sayin' Not at all, the majority of them are bland rep mobiles with financed wheels and air ride, far from earth shattering
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