OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544 
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 11:08:36 GMT
|
EDIT I put some easy start into it and the van started straight away. From this can we assume the fault is fuelling related? EDIT I’m in need of some help and I thought where better to ask than here. I recently bought a T4 VW van. Love the thing, it’s great. However, I have no idea what engine is in it or why it won’t start from cold! I believe the van has had a replacement engine installed, the previous owner said the owner before them had done it and there is evidence it has been. However I have no idea what it is. So once I’ve identified the engine I can then try to start understanding why it won’t start! The symptoms of it not starting. From cold it takes a fair few cranks. Perhaps 30 seconds perhaps even more. Then it will finally start, very poorly and Chuck our a huge ploom of unburnt diesel where it’s been cranking for so long. Once the van has been running for a while it will turn off and start immediately. I know some T4s had cold start levers. My van has the space for one in the dash, but doesn’t have a cable fitted. Now I don’t know if the engine which has been fitted didn’t require one or not, or perhaps that my problem? In addition to this my glow plug light flashes on and then straight off again. I figured it could be the 104 relay for the plugs, however I don’t actually seem to have one fitted in my board. Here are some photos of my engine bay if anyone can identify it from that.       How can I thin down what my problem is? Any advice or suggestions? |
| |
Last Edit: Apr 16, 2019 18:31:56 GMT by OGDB
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 20:10:45 GMT
|
|
just a guess, without knowing how many cylinders there are, but golf tdi engine swap is very common?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 21:27:34 GMT
|
|
Tdi from a mk3 golf/passat 1z swap
Someone also put a intercooler on the top, mine went better with no cooler.
Did that swap on my old van, bloody good engine to have in a t4.
Its also now got an ecu and a electronically controlled fuel pump, the original td engine wouldnt have (hence the remains of the cold start lever)
The ecu is mounted on the firewall.
There is a fuel cutoff solenoid on the pump, its controlled by the immobiliser indirectly
The immobilisor should be mounted in the dash, make sure you are using a key with the transponder chip in it( size of a black grain of rice)
If you get a cheap code reader you should have an obd2 port in the dash, it should be on the panel below the hazzard switch (has a little logo on and you pop the blank off)
or under the steering colomn depending on what age the van is, and if the person that swapped it put it in
|
| |
Last Edit: Apr 11, 2019 9:50:46 GMT by Deleted: Wrote t4 where i meant golf
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 21:39:22 GMT
|
|
Got a relay number 180?
Some had that instead of 103
Put your hand on it when you turn the key on, should feel it click, put a mulimeter on the glowplug to see if its getting any current?
Mine started easy without glowplugs connected, they only realy need em when its real cold
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 21:40:15 GMT
|
|
sounds like one of two things, air leak somewhere on the fuel system or glowplugs not working, more likely to be your glowplugs seen as the light isnt staying on for abit when cold.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 21:40:31 GMT
|
|
Ok and go on the t4 forum, search for tdi swap and theres full wiring diagrams for the swap, so any of the little oddities of this swap can be located.
|
| |
|
|
ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
Member is Online
|
|
Mar 24, 2019 23:33:14 GMT
|
|
If the car has a mechanical lifter pump, check that the one way valve wherever it is fitted isn't leaking. Some have the valves built into the pump which don't tend to go.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You can check the glow plugs one at a time by removing them, re-attaching the cable, shorting them against the cylinder head or earth bar and turning the ignition to first click, (i.e. not cranking). They'll either get hot or they won't.
|
| |
Last Edit: Mar 25, 2019 0:50:19 GMT by MkX
|
|
dubwarrior2
Part of things
"Open up, its the filth"
Posts: 576
|
|
|
|
|
As its got the top mounted intercooler, it should be the 5cylinder ACV Engine (102hp).
As mentioned previously check the glow plug relay....but.
Most common on these is a broken wire inside the loom that passes over the rocker cover.
Usually the yellow/black prevents starting, though there may be a few broken.
Could also be an immobiliser fault
|
| |
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
|
|
|
Thank you everyone for your help with this. Unfortunately I fell very ill after posting so have been unable to investigate any further. In an attempt to answer some questions.
I have found the ODB port on the dash, I have got vag com so I will hook that up tonight and see what comes back. I imagine there will be a huge array of codes as it’s not the most professional of conversions.
In addition to the glow plug light immediately going out the temperature gauge does not work either. I have read that the temp sensor can send a signal to the glow plugs, if this does not work perhaps the each if being told the engine is already warm and not lighting the plugs? However, this doesn’t rule out a faulty dash pod!
I will have a rummage in the relay board and see what I have in there.
I used to have a very similar problem with AHU engines and that was always relay 109. Take it out, bang it on the dash and it always started working again.
Immobiliser wise there is no immobiliser chip in the key. I’ve had immobiliser issues on this age VW before and the vehicle would start, then immediately stall again rather than crank excessively.
I will scan the car tonight and update. Thanks again.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
No chip means its either got an emmulator inline somewhere. (Bridges into the obd wire to the ecu)
or someone has coded it out of the ecu.
Not the fault, but of someones been in the ecu before...
Oh and you are right to consider the 109 relay.
Theres a few weird requirments on doing the swap.that involve moving some wire locations in the back of the fuseboard.
Failure to do so results in weird things like flashing warning lamps, no temp guage etc
|
| |
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Apr 12, 2019 13:41:05 GMT
|
I’ve been trying to do some further reading and I’ve found that the 1Z and the AHU are almost identical apart from the immobiliser. Is it possible that I have a 1Z engine hence no immobiliser? To me it seems far easier to fit the immobiliser than not? I read the car last night with VCDS and got very few results. I read it as a Transporter, Seat Cordoba (my last one had an AHU engine) and a Sear Toledo (as welshpug said the ecu is from a Toledo) each scab returned the same faults and none I imagine are linked with my no starting fault. Hopefully I’ve attached some photos. I will try and upload a photo of the relay board tonight as from what I can remember there is no 109 relay in there. Oddly the van smokes like a monster when it does start so I’m assuming fuel is getting up there so that in theory would rule out relay 109. I have read that disconnecting the CTS can trick the plugs into staying on for longer. I will try this tonight and report back with my findings. If this works I’ll have to plug the VCDS back on and try to view the readings of the CTS and see if it is actually showing a reading or not. I figure the dash could well be a faulty pod however I have read that the lack of working coolant gauge could be due to an ECU fault. |
| |
Last Edit: Apr 12, 2019 13:42:40 GMT by OGDB: Autocorrect
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Apr 12, 2019 13:41:37 GMT
|
|
|
| |
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Apr 12, 2019 13:51:01 GMT
|
|
I’ve just re-read some of this and the man with the dog named monty sorry! I seemed to have misread a lot of what you’ve posted and it’s incredibly informative!
Should I be reading the ECU as a Mk3 gold as apposed to what I have been reading?
Many many years ago we did a few engine conversions on immobilisered cars and as a cheat, especially if we changed the key body we taped the immobiliser into the steering cowl, stupid idea but it worked. Could that not be the case here? Although it seems as through the immobiliser isn’t the problem I think?
Having just swapped to a desktop version and seen your signature, do you find your hearing incredibly short in your van? Because I sure am!
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2019 14:52:28 GMT
|
|
|
| |
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Apr 12, 2019 16:22:05 GMT
|
|
Totally misread the 01117 code on rosstech last night. I read it as an alternator/charging fault. Numpty.
I will connect a jump lead from block to body and see if it makes any difference and report back.
Edit.
Jump lead from block to body doesn’t seem to make a difference.
I can not locate the CTS to disconnect it.
When I have the van running next I will check for a voltage reading across the terminals.
The amount of smoke on start up makes me wonder if it is possibly overfueling?
I had a 1.9 non turbo previously and it smoked all the time regardless of temperature and I put this down to a damaged bottom pulley/woodruff key which caused the timing to go out the window. However it always started bang on the button.
|
| |
Last Edit: Apr 12, 2019 18:00:28 GMT by OGDB
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 12, 2019 20:26:14 GMT
|
We currently have a similar issue with a Renault Trafic 2.0 turbo diesel van, which was recently lent out to a couple of numpties from Deal, who we suspect put the wrong fuel (possibly petrol) in; it broke down in their possession (we got the blame, of course  ) and it wouldn't run at all until I stuck 10 litres of fresh diesel in, and now emits lots of bluish smoke, and 'pinks' a bit going up hills. Plan is to run it right down to near empty again and refill with fresh diesel and some injector cleaner, and probably a damn good thrashing... |
| |
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Apr 14, 2019 17:46:18 GMT
|
|
It’s certainly a tricky one. I understand with your traffic it will have far more advanced injectors than my old barge and I suspect the fuel may have caused some damage to that?
I’m tempted to drain the fuel out, replace the fuel filter and see what that achieves. I got some Redex to run through it to see if that makes any difference.
With the engine being so low in the van and the slam panel being so close it’s quite hard to actually get into anything or even locate it for that matter. I would like to disconnect the coolant temperature sensor and see if that makes a difference to the starting but I can’t find the thing!
|
| |
|
|
OGDB
Part of things
Posts: 544
|
|
Apr 16, 2019 18:31:00 GMT
|
|
I popped the air hose off and threw some easy start down there, didn’t start immediately but it started about 45 seconds quicker than normal. I suppose from this we can assume it’s a feeling fault as apposed to a glow plug fault as I earlier thought?
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 16, 2019 20:58:43 GMT
|
|
Possibly. Could be worth fitting a new fuel filter, and cleaning any MAF or airflow sensor (if fitted) - use the correct type of cleaner, not just carb/brake cleaner.
I bought some Wynns diesel injector cleaner for the Trafic today, which I hope will improve matters with it...
|
| |
|
|
|
|
) and it wouldn't run at all until I stuck 10 litres of fresh diesel in, and now emits lots of bluish smoke, and 'pinks' a bit going up hills.