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Ive got to join make a conection to my ecu, there is a ecu ground for all the sensors on the engine, and i need to join a fairly big wire to 6-7 earth wires. THe earth wires are small, but what the best way to do it?
I don't want to solder them, i have in the past done 4 into a blue conector, but that failed , maybe did the wrong wrapping technique of the copper. Other way is to do little loops off and use 4-5 but ends.
thanks
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If they are sensor grounds surely they terminate individually on the ecu pins? It's normally the lives that is ganged together.
But if they are just earths and you don't want to solder, there are various small junction boxes for just that purpose. I wouldn't want a load of exposed crimp connectors on the sensor wiring.
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Last Edit: Mar 9, 2019 0:00:42 GMT by carat 3.6
1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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I think you already know soldering is the best way to join stranded wires. Any reason you don't want to solder?
To answer you're question though, having multiple loops using connectors is a bad idea, instead of one weak spot with a join you end up with five or six.
If you're set on not using solder you should have all the cables coming from the same direction, strip back 1" on each and twist together till tight, then fold the cable strands in half back on themselves and use one connector. Having all the cables entering from the same direction isn't the most aesthetic joint but better then having a risk of forces act on the joint.
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Last Edit: Mar 8, 2019 23:59:36 GMT by sLowered
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,960
Club RR Member Number: 29
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joining wiresMiataMark
@garra
Club Retro Rides Member 29
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You buy 'buss' bars where you terminate multiple wires, either screw down or spade connectors, to a common connector. Car Builder solutions would be a good place to look.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,754
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Soldering is not preferred by me as it can lead to hard spikes of solder inside the wire and leading to the wire failing thru fatigue, as for terminating the earths, make up a brass earth stud, ring terminate all the earths to the stud
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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If they are sensor grounds surely they terminate individually on the ecu pins? It's normally the lives that is ganged together. But if they are just earths and you don't want to solder, there are various small junction boxes for just that purpose. I wouldn't want a load of exposed crimp connectors on the sensor wiring. No, maybe normally but this is microsquirt , ive a thread going about it on here too!
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I think you already know soldering is the best way to join stranded wires. Any reason you don't want to solder? To answer you're question though, having multiple loops using connectors is a bad idea, instead of one weak spot with a join you end up with five or six. If you're set on not using solder you should have all the cables coming from the same direction, strip back 1" on each and twist together till tight, then fold the cable strands in half back on themselves and use one connector. Having all the cables entering from the same direction isn't the most aesthetic joint but better then having a risk of forces act on the joint.
Mar 9, 2019 15:47:14 GMT v8ian said: Soldering is not preferred by me as it can lead to hard spikes of solder inside the wire and leading to the wire failing thru fatigue, as for terminating the earths, make up a brass earth stud, ring terminate all the earths to the stud
Yes you beet me to it mate! I don't like the hard joints, and hard bits that heat shrink dosnt seem to like...
I was thinking about it today and because this is a sensor ground, and an after market ecu, i may wish to add more to it in the future, so i put crimp rings with the built in heat shrink on the wires, and have used a m6 bolt, soon to be some form or brass nut as v8ian says, or even a proper junction box.
thanks for all the replies!
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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joining wiresDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Soldering is not preferred by me as it can lead to hard spikes of solder inside the wire and leading to the wire failing thru fatigue, as for terminating the earths, make up a brass earth stud, ring terminate all the earths to the stud You see I’ve heard this loads of times, but in nearly 20 years I’ve never seen a single soldered wire joint fail in an automotive application, even terribly done ones. On the other hand, the number of crimps I’ve seen that have pulled out is probably into the hundreds...
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Dez, when you solder wires do you twist them together, so there is a lump, or do you twist so they meet each other if you get me?
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Soldering is definitely the best way to join the wires in an automotive application, heatshrink then self-amalgamating tape to cover it.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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joining wiresDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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Nope, I don’t twist them at all. Bare the wire, flux and tin both sides, slip on some heat-shrink, then lay them next to each other to join. Slip the heat shrink over and heat gun it, job done. Any twisting you do is work hardening the copper. The trick with good soldering is the bare minimum of heat to get a joint or to pre-tin the wires. Once it flashes that’s enough, get that iron out of there.
I’ve done a couple of custom looms this year, a e30 m51 loom and a modified ranger one for a chassis swap, which runs to a couple of hundred wire splices by the time everything is lengthened/shortened and the custom bits connected up, and I’ve had no issues using this method.
Although I am hearing a lot of good things about those self contained wire splice tubes with the solder already contained in heatshrink, I might give some of those a try on the next one I do.
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Soldering is not preferred by me as it can lead to hard spikes of solder inside the wire and leading to the wire failing thru fatigue, as for terminating the earths, make up a brass earth stud, ring terminate all the earths to the stud You see I’ve heard this loads of times, but in nearly 20 years I’ve never seen a single soldered wire joint fail in an automotive application, even terribly done ones. On the other hand, the number of crimps I’ve seen that have pulled out is probably into the hundreds... Same. Good point.
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i looked at those solder heat shrinks, i like the look of them but wasnt sure if it would be the best thing for me. I know at work we don't use them much at all, and the lads are wiring crash cushions etc.
Out of interest dez do you have a pic of one of your joints?
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,960
Club RR Member Number: 29
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joining wiresMiataMark
@garra
Club Retro Rides Member 29
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Here's a joint I made (prior to soldering) based on a thread here, probably by blackpopracing Strip the two ends push them together so they mesh and wrap a single wire round and then solder, bit fiddly but worked for me The yellow is the heat-shrink.
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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If you want strength the nasa splice is the way to go.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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joining wiresChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Mar 11, 2019 22:25:29 GMT
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Soldering is not preferred by me as it can lead to hard spikes of solder inside the wire and leading to the wire failing thru fatigue, as for terminating the earths, make up a brass earth stud, ring terminate all the earths to the stud You see I’ve heard this loads of times, but in nearly 20 years I’ve never seen a single soldered wire joint fail in an automotive application, even terribly done ones. On the other hand, the number of crimps I’ve seen that have pulled out is probably into the hundreds... I'm with Dez on this one. I've done triple figure mileages in a few cars (as in taking a car to 300k+ miles), and I've almost always had crimps fail. I can't ever remember having a soldered joint fail. I manage to get an LPG system working by simply getting rid of the crimps; prior to that, it wouldn't recognise signals, run correctly and so on. My Dolly Sprint potentially blew it's EWP controller due to crimps (albeit, down to someone changing connections because they didn't know what they were doing. On the Stag? The loom was crimped in a place. I do wonder if that was responsible for it 'cutting out' at random. My Escort RST almost boiled over due to crimped wires. While I can see the theory, my experience has been different.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,946
Club RR Member Number: 77
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joining wiresmk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Mar 11, 2019 22:45:18 GMT
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Whenever anyone on this thread says they have had a crimp fail, what kind of crimping tool was used? As if it was a ratcheting type, I've not had one fail or pull out on the various cars I have used them on. The el cheapo pressed steel crimps however, within the first minute of crimping them as the jaws are fox picture!
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tristanh
Part of things
Routinely bewildered
Posts: 990
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I'm with mk2c, you don't find soldered joins on top end race or rally cars.
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Whether you believe you can, or you cannot, you're probably right.
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Mar 12, 2019 11:31:54 GMT
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You will, they are engineered into a non stress and non vibratory location.
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