gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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My mum has just bought a 1959 Frog Eyed Sprite, will sit nicely next to dad's Model A. The Sprite still has a 'leaded' head on it. What is the best option for running the vehicle on modern fuel? I have seen fuel catalysts that you add to the tank one time and apparently they last ten years, is this is a gimmick or should I just whip the head off and do it properly? Thanks in advance Tom
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gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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spiny
Club Retro Rides Member
Wiki Admin
I am abivalent towards car electrics ...
Posts: 1,330
Club RR Member Number: 167
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Leaded fuel replacement spiny
@spiny
Club Retro Rides Member 167
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just run it on unleaded until the seats wear, then have hardened ones fitted.
unless you're going racing every weekend, you'll probably get thousands of miles out of it before any noticable wear appears.
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Ive been running my cars since leaded petrol was phased out on the redex addative, no problems to date, of course they could have been fine with nothing but I didn't want to take the risk.
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When you say fuel catalysts, do you mean those little cages full of lead pellets? My dad had one in his tank for about 8 years before he removed it. It looked no different, I'm not exacly sure how they are supposed to work, so id have to assume they are along the lines of a gimmick. Someone my dad knew in the maxi club had the metal in his head tested and it came back as the same grade as the metal they use in inserts, so dad ran his maxi on unleaded fuel with no additive for years, on a standard head with no problems at all. I doubt if all heads are the same, but I'm sure youd be fine running it with a bit of redex or similar.
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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I remember when they phased out 4*, there was this huge panic among the classic car community about 'valve seat recession' and people were spending pots of cash getting their heads fitted with valve seat inserts. . . there then followed many tales of woe from those who had got it done cheaply and had had catastrophic engine failures because the inserts had fallen out, jamming valves and destroying pistons etc. All this because the classic car press went to town with horror stories of heads becoming useless because the unleaded fuel would cause the dreaded 'VSR', what many failed to say was that 'Valve seat recession' would only occur on an engine that was in regular 'hard' use, because all engines that ran on leaded petrol would have 'lead memory', i.e. lead deposits coating the valve seats that would last thousands of miles in normal use, and any 'VSR' that would occur would take literally thousands of miles to start being noticeable after the 'lead memory' had depleted. And by that time, either the owner would have sold their vehicle (fickle classic car owners), or the engine would probably need a rebuild anyway, new bearings etc, and any valve seat inserts needed could be done then. There also was a proliferation of 'snake oil' remedies, that would keep lead in your fuel, like the aforementioned 'bag of pellets' . . . common sense says these were not going to work... but people bought them, and swore by them...and yes the valves in their cars probably didn't suffer 'VSR'... but that was more than likely down to 'lead memory' than a bag of 'magic' lead beans. Only the properly developed 'lead replacement' additives would actually put 'lead' in your fuel... but who knows whether these were needed or not, most people use it to be on the safe side, but most of these also contained an 'octane booster' so you didn't have to play about with your ignition timing. Or you could buy a separate octane booster and have a myriad of little bottles in your boot to play with at the pump once you've filled up Your engine should last quite a few thousand miles before needing hardened valve seats, especially if it's only taken out at weekends for half the year, by the time it needs them it will probably need bearings etc anyway, or you will have sold it and bought something else, or even scrapped it because the body didn't last as long as the engine... Just stick unleaded in it and enjoy, and for that extra '97ron 4star feel' stick 'super' in it and enjoy more:)
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2019 8:32:25 GMT by lord13
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I use Tetraboost, its basically what they took out the fuel to make it unleaded in the 1st place, and because its the proper lead stuff you get the memory effect back so you only need to use it every 3rd fill up if you want
Its also brings the octane rating back up so you can get back to the old 5 star rating if that's what your motor likes to drink!
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gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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I had seen those lead pellet catalysts but was always skeptical. The car will only do 2k a yeah max so can't see it being a problem. Thanks for all replies. As always helpful and informative. Where can I get tetraboost from?
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to answer the original question, rather than speculate, i have used castrol valvemaster which at the time (2012 region) could still be bought at halfords. this is a metered shot into full tank of gaaasss.
have also used a product called lucas lead replacer, thats lucas the american oil company, not lucas the prince of darkness automotive component manufacturer. which was more cost effective.
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2019 21:34:42 GMT by darrenh
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Leaded fuel replacement ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Valvemaster IMHO is probably your only viable alternative. However, I'd check that you don't have Valve Seat Recession already. Many people won't know that they don't because "all old cars run a little rough at idle". Get a compression test done to be sure. But as said, the 'memory can last longer than you think. Signs of VSR will be the valve clearances closing up between services. The good news is that if you are handy with the spanners, fitting new valve seats to an A-Series won't break the bank. You could even fit a Stage 3 head for further gains .
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2019 21:41:58 GMT by ChasR
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Some engines work well on unleaded: I've had several Pintos that were unaffected and my 1500 Avenger did over 20,000 miles. But the 2.8 in a Granada only managed 3,000 before the valve clearances closed up.
Leaded fuel has been NLA for a long time, so I wouldn't rely on lead memory for anything I was responsible for.
Given that original question was for an A-series, where an unleaded head is about £250 and an hours work,is it really worth trusting to pot luck?
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Leaded fuel replacement ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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I'm going to be honest nickwheeler, I did think the same thing. To some people, £250 is a fortune even on a car worth £10,000+. On other threads, any more than £5 is more than what some wish to spend. i'm not saying the OP is like this .
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Last Edit: Feb 4, 2019 21:36:35 GMT by ChasR
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gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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The money side isn't the problem it's more the time. Once summer is here and the other garage is built I will have more time (light) and room to sort a permanent solution
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gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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gte86
Part of things
Posts: 611
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On another note we have just shook hands on this gem. Roll on the gathering and me getting a nice e38 tow car to take the speedstar
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