alx
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 367
Club RR Member Number: 21
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TIG Weldersalx
@alx
Club Retro Rides Member 21
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Jan 28, 2019 23:37:34 GMT
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Can anyone recommend a decent TIG welder?
Any personal experience of what's good or what to avoid would be very helpful and links even better.
Dunno budget at the moment but all things considered.
There's usually some Chinese version of something there's either a hidden gem or absolutely awful so guidance either is appreciated.
Ta!
AL.
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I've only ever owned Miller TIG Machines and I'm a big fan of them.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern
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alx
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 367
Club RR Member Number: 21
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TIG Weldersalx
@alx
Club Retro Rides Member 21
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Jan 29, 2019 12:55:53 GMT
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Just had a quick look at Millers and they look nice but damn, they're strong money aren't they!!
AL.
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TIG WeldersDeleted
@Deleted
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Jan 29, 2019 13:33:02 GMT
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Ive got a GYS (ac/dc), cost about £1300 I think - they had very good reviews when I was looking so went for one. Lots like the parweld and rtec.
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TIG WeldersDeleted
@Deleted
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Jan 29, 2019 15:41:18 GMT
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Has above Parweld & R Tech are both good manufactures - you can normally tell the good from the bad from the warranty / after sales that comes from the supplier - both of these are 3 years and R Tech will extend to 5 years for a small fee
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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TIG Weldersslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Jan 29, 2019 15:48:12 GMT
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I use an single phase 180amp R-tec ac/dc for most of my work. It's one of the later digital ones so think it's pretty much the same as they sell new atm.. Good for most work until you get up to big castings. Good after support if it goes wrong which touch wood it's hasn't yet! Good idea to factor in the cost of a water cooler and torch if you want to do heavier alloy work but don't need it for small jobs. Only thing I will say is it doesn't like working on a RCD protected circuit. Trips when you switch it on half the time. Still, small problem I could fix if I could be arsed.
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Jan 29, 2019 16:24:05 GMT
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I've got a 2017 Parweld MIG and it's very good. No experience of their TIG machines though.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern
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Jan 29, 2019 17:29:15 GMT
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I've got a Newarc TIG welder, but I'm going to say no more as I've hardly used it and I really need to learn how to. Its said to be a good machine but I have no idea and I got it used.
The real reason I posted was that like Slater I had trip issues when switched on, I solved it by simply changing the standard type B breaker to a type C, same current rating. They can take a higher instantaneous current without tripping, it seems some machines have quite an inrush.
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TIG WeldersDeleted
@Deleted
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Jan 29, 2019 18:12:43 GMT
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I use an single phase 180amp R-tec ac/dc for most of my work. It's one of the later digital ones so think it's pretty much the same as they sell new atm.. Good for most work until you get up to big castings. Good after support if it goes wrong which touch wood it's hasn't yet! Good idea to factor in the cost of a water cooler and torch if you want to do heavier alloy work but don't need it for small jobs. Only thing I will say is it doesn't like working on a RCD protected circuit. Trips when you switch it on half the time. Still, small problem I could fix if I could be arsed. Hmmm. I just got a secondhand AC/DC R tech. Was wondering about that. Any ideas on how to get around it?
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awoo
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,503
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Jan 29, 2019 18:57:47 GMT
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I've got a selco genesis ac/dc tig with water cooling and a foot pedal (found this makes a world of difference). new it was lots but got it secondhand. its been great.
I bought on the basis of quality and it has served me well. had it a few years now.
when I was buying and looking for info, everyone seemed to be mostly interested in the guarantee as though it was destined to break at any moment. I think with a cheap machine that may be the case. hence I aimed for a good quality older one, the one I found was spot on for my needs and been brilliant.
I would look at miller, Lincoln, murex and try find a good used one
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Jan 29, 2019 20:04:59 GMT
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Miller- excellent , expensive Lincoln- excellent ,expensive Kempii , pretty good but expect problems after 1 to 2 years if caned hard all day Cemont- were good 20 years ago , no idea now
R tech - no idea but consistant good unbiased reviews and exceelent back up- good price as well.
Draper , sealey clarke , SIP etc forget it . You get something very basic that will be a sod to use for a beginner and is a piece of dump.
As said above buy the best you can afford - if you spend £700 plus for instant its always going to be worth £400 plus . Keep it clean and dust free and look after it and it will hold its value .
Also as said the r tech 180 is about the best you get for the money for ac/dc [ you need ac for aluminium if your not aware ] .If you are doing alu you really do need a water cooler if your doing anything but small lengths on thin material as you need a lot more power . If your wanting to do heavier alu fabrtication like 5mm plus you will need a serious machine such a filthy great miller which are cheap second hand as they are huge and need three phase.
Factor in another £120 for a pedal , its much easier to start with and helps with aluminium as well .
If buying secondhand stick to well known brands and pick something clean and looked after .
Alternatively buy a big heavy Chinese set and take your chances . Personally i would not bother .
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Jan 29, 2019 20:35:51 GMT
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Also you don't need all the curse word kids bang on about on youtube . Stupid clear glass torch ends with massive gas diffusers etc , its all complete bollockss and its just fashion .Most of these kids have been doing it for 6 months an think they are experts by then !
You don't need fancy stuff when your a beginner or professional .
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Jan 30, 2019 11:59:00 GMT
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I use an single phase 180amp R-tec ac/dc for most of my work. It's one of the later digital ones so think it's pretty much the same as they sell new atm.. Good for most work until you get up to big castings. Good after support if it goes wrong which touch wood it's hasn't yet! Good idea to factor in the cost of a water cooler and torch if you want to do heavier alloy work but don't need it for small jobs. Only thing I will say is it doesn't like working on a RCD protected circuit. Trips when you switch it on half the time. Still, small problem I could fix if I could be arsed. Hmmm. I just got a secondhand AC/DC Â R tech. Was wondering about that. Any ideas on how to get around it? My mig did trip the 16A breaker intially (not the RCD) so I changed the mcb to a less sensitive one ( can't remember the category) and that cured it.
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Jan 30, 2019 12:05:01 GMT
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I've got a Thermal Arc 180A (could be 185 - I can't remember). I bought it in 2006. I've made a few aluminium bellhousings using 10 mm, welded cylinder heads and had no issues. It also welds 1mm body panels on a Healey 3000 my brother is restoring for a customer with no issues. It was expensive back then (£2200 with pedal), you can probably buy much better for much less these days but it is fantastic. It is a lightweight electronic machine too.
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TIG WeldersDeleted
@Deleted
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Jan 30, 2019 12:31:08 GMT
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One of the critical points not touched on here is what are you planning to weld ? - If its 40 / 50 year old alloy bodied panels you can forget TIG welding them - the alloy sheet used through that era of car production carries so many impurities in it that it is virtually impossible to TIG weld - the only successful way that I have found is to gas weld it with a very strong flux - and that is a very different art completely
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Last Edit: Jan 30, 2019 12:31:45 GMT by Deleted
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Jan 30, 2019 14:29:18 GMT
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I was worried about this also Grumpy. So much so on the Healey 3000 I was trying to convince my brother to use modern bonding techniques rather than weld. I cut and welded the new doors and they welded ok. When it came to the front end panel work he'd bought it in 4 sections that we had to attach to the original shroud. We did this as the rear shroud was shot as a new purchased and it was a dreadful fit (as were the doors). With 4 sections we could move everything about until they fitted as we wanted to the original wings and shroud and then weld together. It actually welded really well after all the black curse word had been removed. I was really surprised. It welded no different to the new aluminium. I'm not saying all old aluminium panels would weld as easy, but the Healey ones did. Perhaps some manufacturers added other metals into the mix to make manufacturing easier but this is detrimental to Tig repairs Also where I welded cooling vents in the wing, which i don't think are original but still old, welded good also
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alx
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 367
Club RR Member Number: 21
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TIG Weldersalx
@alx
Club Retro Rides Member 21
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Jan 30, 2019 15:20:23 GMT
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Awesome load of info from everyone, it is very much appreciated.
I put myself through a welding course a few years ago now so I have a basic understanding of gas, MIG and TIG. Mainly did TIG to be honest and found it to fit in well with my OCD :-) I even got nice beads with good penetration but this was using high end gear in a nice clean and airy college workshop.
Trouble is I've not done it for ages and need to get my eye in again and start learning properly with rust and cold and awkward positions involved.
I want to be able to weld my own stainless exhaust / intercooler piping, trick little brackets for things in stainless and aluminium and also I need to make components for my work out of 316/316L. I have a basic MIG setup but again, not used for ages, need to re-learn. From my reading I had identified that AC was required to weld ally which adds a fair amount to the price of a welder. I need to get my head round whether I need it that much to warrant buying an AC/DC setup.
I will be working on 1990's cars mostly (I have a second Mitsubishi FTO which needs a fair amount of welding) so hopefully between the MIG and TIG I should be able to cover most eventualities.
Again, thanks chaps for the personal insights and experience. It has helped loads.
AL.
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Last Edit: Jan 30, 2019 15:21:33 GMT by alx
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Jan 30, 2019 16:49:17 GMT
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TIG WeldersDeleted
@Deleted
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Jan 30, 2019 17:01:31 GMT
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I was worried about this also Grumpy. So much so on the Healey 3000 I was trying to convince my brother to use modern bonding techniques rather than weld. I cut and welded the new doors and they welded ok. When it came to the front end panel work he'd bought it in 4 sections that we had to attach to the original shroud. We did this as the rear shroud was shot as a new purchased and it was a dreadful fit (as were the doors). With 4 sections we could move everything about until they fitted as we wanted to the original wings and shroud and then weld together. It actually welded really well after all the black curse word had been removed. I was really surprised. It welded no different to the new aluminium. I'm not saying all old aluminium panels would weld as easy, but the Healey ones did. Perhaps some manufacturers added other metals into the mix to make manufacturing easier but this is detrimental to Tig repairs Also where I welded cooling vents in the wing, which i don't think are original but still old, welded good also Jonsey - I think that by the time the Healey came along that reasonable supplies of alloy sheet could be had - but when the Jowett Jupiter came to the market in 1950 the market was still catching up from the effects of the war period hence the supply of raw materials was still poor - over the next decade to the 1960's things got very much better on all fonts - I have spoke to other owners of different alloy bodied cars of the same production era and they have all had the same results with attempts of TIG welding with what is poor quality alloy sheet - I now use a combination of cold bonding & countersunk riveting process along with gas welding when working on the Jupiter's (there is only 3 of them in the queue for full body resto's currently )
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Last Edit: Jan 30, 2019 17:02:45 GMT by Deleted
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Jan 30, 2019 17:14:59 GMT
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I use an single phase 180amp R-tec ac/dc for most of my work. It's one of the later digital ones so think it's pretty much the same as they sell new atm.. Good for most work until you get up to big castings. Good after support if it goes wrong which touch wood it's hasn't yet! Good idea to factor in the cost of a water cooler and torch if you want to do heavier alloy work but don't need it for small jobs. Only thing I will say is it doesn't like working on a RCD protected circuit. Trips when you switch it on half the time. Still, small problem I could fix if I could be arsed. Hmmm. I just got a secondhand AC/DC R tech. Was wondering about that. Any ideas on how to get around it? Its always worth checking all the cable connections, specifically the earth, make sure they are nice and tight from the plug all the way back to the fuseboard as that can be the cause of nuisance tripping for RCD/RCBOs, normally most RCD/RCBOs are 30ma tripping bit you can get some 100ma which are not as sensitive, with standard current type circuit breakers most domestic stuff is B curve tripping but again you can get C or D curve which are not as sensitive to the initial switch-on inrush of current you get with some stuff
There is no substitute for the correct size cables though, once you start getting voltage drop with cables that are too small your current draw goes up which makes things worse
Hope that makes sense
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