lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jan 10, 2019 19:06:14 GMT
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I'll apologise in advance for this post not being very retro in nature, but I seek your opinion and counsel. So I want to make a day van / camperish travel companion. Half the fun of this as I'm sure you will agree is selecting, chasing, purchasing and modifying the right vehicle. I've got a budget of around £2-2.5k for the van itself. I'm wanting to get a Renault Trafic / Vauxhall Vivaro / Nissan Primastar. My target is to get one with the 100 brake 1.9 Renault sourced engine with the 6 speed gearbox. I want it to be LWB and with the single tailgate rather than 2 barn doors. I'd like it to have electric windows and air con too. It sounds like a fairly specific list of requirements, some are more flexible than other but I am adamant I want a LWB model. I'm basically after opinions and experiences from you folk. I know the 1.9 can suffer injector issues and is the least powerful of the available donks but its economy (and reliability) I'm after most. The 2.0 diesel is supposedly notably thirstier and I tend to have no faith in GM designed diesels. I've read of cam chains jumping and a few other minor horrors although nobody has given me first hand experience. The 2.5 is ruled out on thirst grounds. I'm also aware the 6 speed box is much weaker than the 5. I'm justifying this risk by saying I'll search for one that's had a recon box already fitted - apparently once a 6 speed is reconditioned and a crucial torque value is applied at the revised lower level its just as strong as the 5 - all this again for economy and better mile munching. I am interested in alternatives if I've overlooked any vans? I want one of similar size and coil sprung car like comfort to the triplets above though (and within my budget) I've ruled out Transits of a similar size because they are worse on fuel, don't seem to be reliable, rust and look a bit ghetto. VWs are out because for my budget I would be looking at a rusty mid 90s T4 or a T5 builders van with 300k miles on it. Mercedes vans all seem to be too crusty, The Master, Boxer, Relay are all too big and proper van like if that makes sense. So yea, what do you reckon? Pictures would be nice too Cheers!
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Jan 10, 2019 20:33:00 GMT
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yeah , transits are rubbish....not... forum.retro-rides.org/thread/191121/transit-day-vanive driven hundreds of thousands of miles in transits and while they were always company vehicles i would have one myself in a blink of an eye. not sure why they get such a bad rap , sure they can rust and aren't without issues but at your budget i would think you should put one back in the frame!
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jan 10, 2019 20:41:27 GMT
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yeah , transits are rubbish....not... forum.retro-rides.org/thread/191121/transit-day-vanive driven hundreds of thousands of miles in transits and while they were always company vehicles i would have one myself in a blink of an eye. not sure why they get such a bad rap , sure they can rust and aren't without issues but at your budget i would think you should put one back in the frame! I was in no way shape or form trying to 'Transit Bash!' Although looking back at my comments I might have been a bit judgey there. I've had a couple of the earlier DI engine Transits in the past and always enjoyed the ruggedness of them. I know the later FWD ones I'd be looking at are a much more civilised beast. Are the engines tough then? In your experience what is their Achilles heel? They aren't a bad looking thing either, yet unless it is exceptionally tidy they seem to come with a bit of stigma attached. I'm a scruffy northerner so I'm pre disposed to like such things and not be judgmental. But I do find myself leaning away from them. I could be convinced though?
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Jan 10, 2019 20:49:05 GMT
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across the ones that i drove they only suffered from front brakes made of cheese , constant uneven front tyre wear and that was about it in general , one did suffer dmf failure but i have never left at the side of the road in a transit.
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'80 s1 924 turbo..hibernating '80 golf gli cabriolet...doing impression of a skip '97 pug 106 commuter...continuing cheapness making me smile!
firm believer in the k.i.s.s and f.i.s.h principles.
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jan 10, 2019 22:13:25 GMT
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Fair point. Including Transits would offer a lot more in the way of body style choice and just a generally broader market. I don't think they ride quite as well having a beam and cart springs on the back though. I'm playing my own devils advocate here
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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tristanh
Part of things
Routinely bewildered
Posts: 990
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Jan 10, 2019 22:56:02 GMT
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All I work on is camper vans, and I wouldn't take a present of a Transit. Comfort wise, nothing touches the Trafic. And the 1.9 is more reliable than the 2.0. Gearbox is a bit soft, but it's rare to find one now that hasn't been rebuilt. Me, and other mates in the trade haven't had any gearbox failures since we started changing the gearoil every year or two in them, and putting in slightly more than standard.
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Whether you believe you can, or you cannot, you're probably right.
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Jan 10, 2019 23:59:52 GMT
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All I work on is camper vans, and I wouldn't take a present of a Transit. Comfort wise, nothing touches the Trafic. And the 1.9 is more reliable than the 2.0. Gearbox is a bit soft, but it's rare to find one now that hasn't been rebuilt. Me, and other mates in the trade haven't had any gearbox failures since we started changing the gearoil every year or two in them, and putting in slightly more than standard. Thanks for that! I think you have basically confirmed all my suspicions: The Traffic (Viv/Primastar) are the comfiest and the 1.9 is the one to go for. Was I right on the gearbox fault then? I tend to change the gearbox oil on my stuff every couple of engine oil changes so that's something I'm used to. What would you be looking for on a 1.9 engine if you were buying?
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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tristanh
Part of things
Routinely bewildered
Posts: 990
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The 100, as you said, and 5 or 6 speed. Think 6 is more usually found on the 2.0 Nissan engined one though.
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Whether you believe you can, or you cannot, you're probably right.
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Jan 11, 2019 18:56:27 GMT
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The Trafic/Vivaro is the most uncomfortable van I’ve even driven. Truly horrible to drive, gearchange is sloppy, it’s noisy and unrefined and reliability is woeful. Fuel pump failures, blown turbos and weak transmissions are the usual downfalls. Shame as I do really like the styling of them.
I’m not overly keen on T5s and don’t think they’re that nice to drive, but are far more reliable than the Trafic. The latest T6’s are much better, but all VW vans are far over priced.
I own a few vans/trucks now and they’re all Transits and Sprinters. Wouldn’t touch anything else, but every commercial vehicle of a certain age are going to have things to watch out for and on Transits and all Mercedes vans it’s rust! I’ve never had any vehicle go rusty on me because I’m extremely anal at cleaning and maintaining every square inch of a vehicle, but I have bought a few Transit vans and a Sprinter Recovery truck which have been rusty to begin with. Whilst Mercedes commercials rust worse than any others on the outside, they are very robust structurally. Transits are more likely to fall victim to chassis rust.
I don’t think any van feels as welcoming as a Transit when it comes to driving it and sitting in it. So comfortable and easy to drive and everything feels just right. You can feel superior quality in the Mercedes in some aspects for sure and well cared for ones are literally bomb-proof, but that does make them, particularly the Sprinter, more heavy-duty feeling to drive, so not as pleasant as the Transit.
On the whole though, looking at what you want, I’d 100% choose a Vito, as the styling suits the look, you’ve got the best of the bunch in terms of reliability and the LWB version is perfect size-wise as it’s not too big externally. I’ve often thought of doing the same sort of thing and would have the Vito every time. Rust can be an issue, but structurally it very, very rarely is, just cosmetically.
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Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,555
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Jan 11, 2019 21:12:16 GMT
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I've got a MK6 RWD Transit and quite enjoy driving it.There is nothing in particular to explain this is just works as it should and the controls seem just right. It's a fairly rust free one it's a minibus so hasn't been abused quite so much. Since I have owned it I have fitted a solid flywheel, new electric throttle pedal and a water pump. The lack of teeth on the ring gear was the main reason fitted the new flywheel but once it was all apart I realised the flywheel was just starting to go bad. I haven't had any problems with it so far but have found you need to drive it a bit more carefully to avoid the driveline clunking.
Mine has a semi high roof and because it's RWD you can't stand up in the back. You would need a high roof or go for a FWD one to allow that.
On older Peugeot, Fiat and Citroen vans there seemed to be a lot with gearbox/clutch problems and while not generally as rusty it seems they went bad around the rear suspension mounts.
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Jan 12, 2019 18:46:12 GMT
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I used to work for Vauxhall and I regularly borrowed there hire vans (Vivaro) to take my bike on track days or if I was collecting an engine from some random place in the uk so I did quite a lot of long drives in them and really liked them
BUT and this is important They were all brand new my brother has one (because he couldn't afford a T6) and he likes and hasn't had any issues with it but again it's brand new I also have a mate who races motorbikes and he has one and he loves it he uses it as his car but again it is new
I looked recently at buying one myself and I don't think they age well
Not saying every van over 3 years old has been thrashed and trashed but most have which really limits your choice So expect to look at loads before you find the one you want
As for common problems all the later vans have problems (the smiley face transit was the last reliable van) So I think your better off looking for the best condition/spec van you can and worry about the bits that fall off or brake when they do
Happy hunting
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1992 240 Volvo T8 1955 Cadillac 1994 BMW E34 M5 (now sold ) 1999 BMW E36 sport touring x2 1967 Hillman imp Californian "rally spec" 1971 VW bay window (work in progress) 1999 Mazda 323F 1987 Jaguar XJ12 All current
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Jan 12, 2019 21:23:44 GMT
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I must have bought well over a dozen vans now and there's been one VW, two Fords, three Citroens and the rest have been Fiat Ducatos. Nothing comes close to them for payload, economy, and absence of rot. Whereas other vans have multiple weak points, they have only one, and that is gearbox in the best engine, the 2.3 Iveco one. The same box is also in the 2.8 which was also fitted to PSA models (2.3 was solely fitted to the Ducato). I think I would prefer a really old T4 in decent shape to a (any!) Renault van (or it's badge engineered compatriots) - they keep selling, but I cannot understand why. For a van that's like a car though, you'd be best with a VW maybe - they did also make the Caravelle using the van bodies. Otherwise, you are talking about taking a large commercial vehicle designed for heavy work (especially given LWB requirement) and none are going to be very much like a car at all.
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Jan 12, 2019 22:51:50 GMT
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I've driven most of them, the transits are by far the best to drive, all makes seem to have the same issues with dpf's dmf's and ad blue systems etc. The problem with larger Transits is they are virtually all sold to fleets when new so have had a hard life when they get older.
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Jan 31, 2019 19:26:35 GMT
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As the link above shows,I built my Transit on a really tight budget..And well happy with how it turned out. Drove great and never missed a beat
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Last Edit: Jan 31, 2019 19:27:46 GMT by petetong
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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I really appreciate everyone's input on this, it's given me some food for thought. I've driven most of them, the transits are by far the best to drive, all makes seem to have the same issues with dpf's dmf's and ad blue systems etc. The problem with larger Transits is they are virtually all sold to fleets when new so have had a hard life when they get older. The general consensus seems to be that most suffer from similar problems, fleet use tends to up the factor of hammer they have received and something privately owned is always going to have seen a bit more love. With that in mind, I'm thinking of upping my budget slightly and going for an early LWB tailgated T5. I know they are for posers, surfers and vegans but I'm thinking I can justify it in the potential resale value once I inevitably get bored of it. Plus with economy and reliability being of high importance - I don't think you can do much better than the 1.9 tdi. The T5.1 facelift brought in the 2.0 tdi which wouldn't be a tragedy but probably would be out of budget. I know they suffer from clutch and dual mass issues a bit more than most but if its been replaced its been replaced. Apart from that and a strange notchiness of the steering caused by a steering column issue I think they are golden. They really don't rust either. Am I using reasonable logic or being a hipster?
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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personally,after my T4,I went for a pre 06 sprinter,after doing loads of research as it appeared to be the bEtter option reliability wise, now owned it 5 years, its a full blown camper/mohome, with everything you need in itincluding shower and toilet,tv lighting solar panels etc etc, its totally off grid,it drives like a car, can cross france non toll road to spanish border on just less than a tank of fuel,I looked at about a half a dozen till i found one in good condition bodywise, did find that though they may look bad with rust scabs, they are usually rocksolid underneath,since buying it, have met loads of owners, all say the same thing bullet proof things, seen over a half a dozen with over 500k still drivin sweetly,loved the T4 but scene tax on anything you wanted to buy for it,was a pain, brother in law has a t5, now wishes he hadnt bought it, niece also has a t5 and just pays the bills with a sigh,an t5 do not seem to hold the price as well as the earlier models
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lightyearman
Part of things
GYJDM - Grimsby based Japanese car club - Find us on Facebook
Posts: 639
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Scene tax is ever present with any VW commercial unfortunately. It's strange that T5s should struggle to hold their price when compared to T4s, I thought the T5 addressed the 4's Achilles heel of rust and that was about it?
What are the fundamental differences between T4s and 5s?
I know Sprinters are great vans and for any commercial purpose I would have one. They just feel a bit industrial / agricultural to me when compared to smaller FWD vans
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'89 Honda CRX siR Glassroof Flint black fully restored track beasty '90 Nissan S13 Pignose - pass the mig wire '86 Mini - matt orange, 13" Wellers, Project 2018 '97 LDV Convoy home built camper/tramper van '04 Saab 9-5 Aero HOT. Anyone want it? '91 Honda VFR400 NC30 17,000 km from new '87 Honda XR80 4 stroke baby crosser '03 Mini Cooper S - honestly, they are fun... '15 VW T5.1 LWB daily brick
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Another vote for a sprinter, anything up to a 67 plate, my new 68 plate in work has 9k on it and has been back to the dealer 3 times, there again now with mad electronic gremlins related to the active braking. Bit agricultural but they never break and most I've driven have done 130k in 3 years without issue.
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Transit for me, I've had a primastar, sprinter, berlingo, expert, dispatch and a few others but still prefer my 2005 transit to them all. Never had a vw though due to the silly money they go for.
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T5 vans have much more complex engines over the T4, supposedly better mpg (don't know real world) also emissions (LOL) lots quieter inside and more electronic body systems.
hard to tell on the rust as they arent that old yet.
personally I'd go for a decent sized estate if its to be used daily, better mpg and convenience, also far cheaper than vans.
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