okp
Part of things
Posts: 183
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Nov 16, 2018 19:32:03 GMT
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They are a good car, I’ve just got rid my 320d it was bullet proof and gave modern cars a good run for their money, style wise imo think they’re bang up to date still, they’ve aged well, however their downfall is their availability now, prices have plummeted and it’s been picked up on, I was on a few e46 pages on Facebook and watched them slowly become the new Vauxhall corsa, to the point I was becoming embarrassed to own one 🙈 young lads blathering them in all manner of m badges, and double sided sticky taping all manner of Halfords “accessories” all over them. I’d happily own the m3 e46 without a doubt, this will be the future classic, but for me, they’re a pass now. If I go back to bmw ownership it would be a tidy 2092 I think
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Nov 16, 2018 21:15:17 GMT
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I don't want to even try to answer the "what is retro" question, but I have my own way of figuring it out, which suits me fine. That is, when ordinary people stop considering it as an option among others, and look for one out of choice. Much the same as modern oddball or performance cars.
So that will need explained. It's not about price curves. Take the predecessor of the E46 - the E36. It was a retro for the last 5+ years, but only has started to appreciate in value over the last two. That has actually brought them back into the hands of wannabe prospectors, who after casting them aside a few years ago are now trying to get hold of them to make a quick (and relatively large) buck. The E34 5 series is a better example and closer to home. Made from 1988-1996, it was a "normal" car choice up until around 2006, at ten years old for the youngest. After that it wasn't a normal choice any more, and it quickly moved into banger territory, but actually avoided most of the banger stigma, and so then the only people who were really buying them, were doing so out of choice. Thus it started to be looked on fondly, appreciatively, as started to become a retro. It's been a retro since, despite spending nearly ten more years under a grand for an MOT'd car, only in the past couple starting to rise in value. So it's nothing to do with value. If I see a facebook post with someone asking "I need a cheap car for winter - budget £1200" - do I, would I, offer a cheap E34? Nope. E46? Absolutely. People would still consider that an acceptable daily. An E34 or E36 is "old" and most people would dismiss it, but enthusiasts would seek one out specifically.
Couple that with a mild amount of desirability - a Toyota Avensis from 1994 is also of the same age, but there is practically nobody searching one out specifically, they just remain old and at the bottom of the depreciation curve.
I've sold plenty of E46s to people who just wanted a nice car, so no, not retro. I've not sold an E34 or E36 to someone who just wanted any car for, at least 5 years. I've also sold a few special E46s that people have really been looking for, but that's not the norm. But it will be in a few years. Tidy 330ci coupes are picking up already. So, soon, maybe.
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Nov 16, 2018 22:46:50 GMT
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I did write a long reply citing why IMO the 'retroness' clasification has changed of cars, which included things like the tax free classification going from 25 years>Pre-73>40 years old and the knock on effect that had. Also down was the fact the cars live longer these days in addition to once one hits a certain age, new cars just become 'meh', meaning older ones seems new despite sometimes being 8 years old. But back on track I've not seen a prefacelift E46 for a long time. That's one with amber lights all round. I saw one for the first time in ages today. I wondered if it was a retrofit, but, nope, it was a very well kept early model. Most of the ones I see out and about are facelift, a pre facelift is hard to find in good condition. It took about 4 months to find the red coupe I have now, but that was because I specifically wanted a early car for it's simplicity. No can-bus system makes it mod friendly.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Nov 16, 2018 23:39:00 GMT
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That is very clean and beautifully detailed. Are these wheels from a younger car? Suit it quite well.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
Member is Online
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Is the E46 bmw a retro ride?ChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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I did write a long reply citing why IMO the 'retroness' clasification has changed of cars, which included things like the tax free classification going from 25 years>Pre-73>40 years old and the knock on effect that had. Also down was the fact the cars live longer these days in addition to once one hits a certain age, new cars just become 'meh', meaning older ones seems new despite sometimes being 8 years old. But back on track I've not seen a prefacelift E46 for a long time. That's one with amber lights all round. I saw one for the first time in ages today. I wondered if it was a retrofit, but, nope, it was a very well kept early model. Most of the ones I see out and about are facelift, a pre facelift is hard to find in good condition. It took about 4 months to find the red coupe I have now, but that was because I specifically wanted a early car for it's simplicity. No can-bus system makes it mod friendly. I'm intrigued by the last reply. Which aspects are more mod friendly? As and FYI you can still fairly comprehensively read codes with INPA on a pre-facelift car, or at the very least a V-reg one (i.e one of the last pre-facelifts). I know as I've done that for a friend's M52TU'd 328i by using a round port converter to connect my INPA lead to, which is OBD-II.
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Nov 17, 2018 10:37:19 GMT
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That is very clean and beautifully detailed. Are these wheels from a younger car? Suit it quite well. Yes, off a 1 series with new Michelin tyres on, gone to my son and partner near Bolton
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Nov 17, 2018 10:45:05 GMT
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Of course!!!! From a 1 series,indeed. Suit it really well. It stays in the family,good news!!👍👍
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Nov 18, 2018 16:14:38 GMT
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Most of the ones I see out and about are facelift, a pre facelift is hard to find in good condition. It took about 4 months to find the red coupe I have now, but that was because I specifically wanted a early car for it's simplicity. No can-bus system makes it mod friendly. I'm intrigued by the last reply. Which aspects are more mod friendly? As and FYI you can still fairly comprehensively read codes with INPA on a pre-facelift car, or at the very least a V-reg one (i.e one of the last pre-facelifts). I know as I've done that for a friend's M52TU'd 328i by using a round port converter to connect my INPA lead to, which is OBD-II. On a can-bus car things like the engine ecu, traction control, dashboard all need to talk to each other to function correctly. When you remove or modify one of those, such as the engine ecu, it affects the other systems too. There are ways to get around these problems but it complicates things. In the case of the m60 engine I will be using, getting the can-bus system to talk to it error free would be a nightmare. The earlier car having a more conventional electrical system means I can integrate a different management system fairly easily, as most inputs and outputs are analogue signals. Other systems are also more independent, and can be tricked quite easily. That's my take on it anyway.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Nov 18, 2018 19:35:55 GMT
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But hasn't the E46 not the same electrical system regardless of the year? Even the early ones have K bus and a GM5 module etc. And even DSC+T was available as an option. Only the throttle is by cable on the 323i and 328i to the drive-by-throttle on the 320i, 325i and 330i. Throttle cable is worth replacing if it is sticky or heavy on your 323i, best 15 pounds to spend on an E46. And since we are sharing pics:
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Click picture for more
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Nov 18, 2018 21:32:19 GMT
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Bought one yesterday! An 04 320d touring in blue. Made up withere it (bar the airbag light coming on today..) gearchange and steering are both excellent. Chassis feels very tight and it's a lot of fun. Swallowed the double pram no problem and it's a comfortable place to be. I see it as just on the border of 'retro' at the moment. Good looking motors.
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Jez
Part of things
Posts: 517
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Nov 20, 2018 11:52:40 GMT
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I've just sold my 330i daily and I miss it terribly: So much so that the Subaru I've replaced it with is going straight back up for sale so I can find another E46. Are they retro? Not quite but I feel like they're almost there. The shape is still closer to a classic Beemer than a modern one, especially the pre-facelift models. Mine even had a tape deck! And they're fairly simple cars, there's not much in the way of 'connectivity' and other modern technology. Yet somehow they still look presentable and don't stand out as dated amongst newer cars, especially the facelift models.
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1990 VW Golf GTI G60 2014 Skoda Octavia RS
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Nov 20, 2018 21:37:00 GMT
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Very nice car that,beatiful wheels imo.^^^^
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tofufi
South West
Posts: 1,452
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Maybe I am just getting old, but I still see the E46 as a modern car. My brother has one '04 318 touring) as an everyday car, but it will be getting sold or broken soon if anyone can use anything from it.
My parents have no interest in cars, and own a car from the year the E46 was released...
To my mind the E36 is now close to being retro 😉
That said, I'm still keen to see cool modified E46s 😁
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Last Edit: Nov 21, 2018 8:44:18 GMT by tofufi
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Nov 21, 2018 21:17:14 GMT
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But hasn't the E46 not the same electrical system regardless of the year? Even the early ones have K bus and a GM5 module etc. And even DSC+T was available as an option. Only the throttle is by cable on the 323i and 328i to the drive-by-throttle on the 320i, 325i and 330i. Throttle cable is worth replacing if it is sticky or heavy on your 323i, best 15 pounds to spend on an E46. And since we are sharing pics: The electrical system got more integrated on the later cars, they do all have k bus ect but the difference is what it's connected to. A good example is the instrument cluster, early car is setup like the e36 whilst the later is driven via can signals. Thanks for the tip on the throttle cable, but that will all be in the skip soon.
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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Is the E46 bmw a retro ride?slipngripross
@slipngripross
Club Retro Rides Member 149
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No they are not retro currently.
However as with any BMW in the past you will find the high end models will become retro cool in the not too distant future. The E46 M3 is a stunning car to drive with great motorsport pedigree. Also the 330 and 330D have great engines and the styling is spot on. So they will end up fetching pretty good money when the time comes.
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Mike D
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,196
Club RR Member Number: 57
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Is the E46 bmw a retro ride?Mike D
@v8mike
Club Retro Rides Member 57
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Nov 22, 2018 14:12:09 GMT
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I've had my 330 Clubsport as a daily since 2012 and I still absolutely love it, I had a chap drive past on the motorway the other day hooting and giving a thumbs up so they must be turning the corner into retrodom / people appreciating them rather than just an old banger now 😀
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At Zolder,my hometrack.
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Nov 23, 2018 13:03:44 GMT
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This probably isn't strictly under the term retro but to me there are some simple rules:
1. Has it been out of production a good while? - Yes! 2. Can poor condition render it scrappable ie. rust, etc.? - Yes 3. Did your dad used to have one or did he dream of having one or did your best mates dad have one? - Mine did! 4. Would it get in to classic car shows? - probably not as E36's are only just - but not far off. 5. Can you work on it yourself and i mean beyond the polish and ebay stick on tat jobs? - Absolutely 6. Can it be appreciated beyond it's faults when a mainstream car? - Just about and this forgiveness is what will make it retro classic or not one day. 7. Is there anything on there that you could look at and go "wow look how they did that in them days" - ? - no not yet.
So in summary it isn't old or quirky enough to be classic or retro quite yet or rare enough for people to comment that you don't see any anymore but i think RR caters for all cars and people that don't fall into any other category. The BM forums will be full of folk who wan to power max it or mod it with the latest equipment. Either that or track day it or something - so where else are you going to go? Stick here amongst friends and do a modern resto job on it. Preventing an aging car from deteriorating into a barn find is sometimes more interesting than a 6 month weldathon!
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Nov 23, 2018 18:34:40 GMT
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Wow. Now there is some food for thought me thinks. ( at least for me)😄
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Nov 23, 2018 19:49:27 GMT
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This probably isn't strictly under the term retro but to me there are some simple rules: 1. Has it been out of production a good while? - Yes! 2. Can poor condition render it scrappable ie. rust, etc.? - Yes 3. Did your dad used to have one or did he dream of having one or did your best mates dad have one? - Mine did! 4. Would it get in to classic car shows? - probably not as E36's are only just - but not far off. 5. Can you work on it yourself and i mean beyond the polish and ebay stick on tat jobs? - Absolutely 6. Can it be appreciated beyond it's faults when a mainstream car? - Just about and this forgiveness is what will make it retro classic or not one day. 7. Is there anything on there that you could look at and go "wow look how they did that in them days" - ? - no not yet. So in summary it isn't old or quirky enough to be classic or retro quite yet or rare enough for people to comment that you don't see any anymore but i think RR caters for all cars and people that don't fall into any other category. The BM forums will be full of folk who wan to power max it or mod it with the latest equipment. Either that or track day it or something - so where else are you going to go? Stick here amongst friends and do a modern resto job on it. Preventing an aging car from deteriorating into a barn find is sometimes more interesting than a 6 month weldathon! That's a great check list, think I'll apply that to a few other cars!
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1988 Mercedes w124 superturbo diesel 508hp 1996 Mercedes s124 e300 diesel wagon 1990 BMW E30 V8 M60 powered! 1999 BMW E46 323ci project car
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