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Nov 10, 2018 15:44:38 GMT
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Alright lads
Right, so the driveshaft output seal on my transmission was seeping fluid so I decided to replace.
Come to fit the new one and no matter what I do it won't go in straight/level, it keeps on "cocking"...
I've been on it for 3hrs and I'm losing the will to live, any ideas?
To avoid going over stuff that I already know/done
It's definitely the right seal
Housing has been cleaned/lubed and free from anything that could obstruct
Housing does have a chamfer on the edge, which is making it very difficult to line up so it can go in level.
Yes I'm using a bearing/seal driver to ensure that I don't damage seal and that it has even pressure.
I can't work it out, I've done countless seals before and most have been done by hand with a tap of a mallet to sit flush- this needs a good hit to get it slightly in never mind flush.
Help.
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Nov 10, 2018 17:32:35 GMT
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Hi, I've had the same problem with pattern hub seals for my series Land Rover and I think it's just slight manufacturing inaccuracies, I found just putting a slight bevel on the leading edge helps it to enter.
Colin
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Last Edit: Nov 10, 2018 17:34:15 GMT by colnerov
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Nov 10, 2018 20:01:28 GMT
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I'm in, but I'm not flush yet, around 3mm out. When I say I've whacked it to get it in.. without the driver tool it would have bent on the first hit.. theres no way taps would have got it anywhere, it doesn't seem to want to go any further though. I'm hoping tomorrow morning brings fresh enthusiasm and gets me in, not holding out my hopes though tbf...
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tristanh
Part of things
Routinely bewildered
Posts: 990 
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Nov 10, 2018 20:03:39 GMT
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If you could get it warmed up a bit maybe?
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Whether you believe you can, or you cannot, you're probably right.
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It's the other way round with seals mate- heat metal to expand, use cold to retract rubber etc.
I did put it in the freezer before going to fit but didn't want to heat the transmission case just in case it damaged the seal you see.
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Nov 12, 2018 18:25:52 GMT
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I had a similar issue with the front crank seal on my Vauxhall engine when I was putting it together. Unfortunately the cure was to switch it for another seal from a different manufacturer, which went straight in.
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Nov 12, 2018 19:44:58 GMT
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It must be down to the OEM seal, with that number only being used on a limited number of rarer cars I'm assuming they haven't been pulled up enough on them.
I'm going to order a febest oe and then get roud to changing it at a later date. Its in but not quite flush, it doesnt foul the drivehare sleeve and when i say i belted it, I mean i was belting it and it wouldn't go any further so I'll be very surprised if it leaks but I'll want to re-do it for my own peace of mind.
On a brighter note, I dropped the sump, cleaned the filter and went to re-install... The LAST bolt snapped off.. I know they don't take much torque, it purely snapped on me through nipping it up... That's the epitome of how things have gone lately for me with cars.
Cue another 5 hrs stuck under it...You've got to laugh
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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What brand of seal is it? Have you lubed the lip where the driveshaft would touch with oil prior to fitting the driveshaft?
I've not had an issue with genuine seals but I have with pattern/OE ones, even Elring! That said, Volvo can't make good seals for now for the crank seals on 5 pots.
What car is it?
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It's an OEM Toyota one, everything lubed and cleaned properly, set in place correctly, correct driver tool etc.
I have never had an issue either, but 2 now have been impossible to fit flush and when I say they need hammering to insert, I mean it, and still slightly proud... I'm going to try a febest one in the hope that it fits better, which I know sounds stupid but it's got to be worth a try because I know I've done everything else correctly.
As far as I know they're the only other manufacturer of the seal.
I've installed a lot of seals- transmission, cam, crank etc- before with no issues and needing no more than a finger push and tap to finish.
It's beyond frustrating.
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,556
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Nov 15, 2018 10:21:23 GMT
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Is there any chance Toyota may have changed the seal size at some point ? You car might have been built around the point it was changed so it might be a case of one or the other fits.
Trying another brand might show this up.
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Nov 15, 2018 12:54:18 GMT
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Good point- the original part number has now been succeeded so you can no longer buy it, which lead me to believe they're identical.
90311-50011 original oe number
90311-50029 new oe number
There is a chamfer on the edge, which means if you put it 100% flush that the edge wouldn't meet the hole diameter so maybe that's as far as it's meant to go- it was definite as far as it could physically possibly go though.
It's not leaked after taking it for a test drive though, thankfully.
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Nov 15, 2018 19:08:26 GMT
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My Timken catalogue lists an equivalent PN of 710112 for the first of those parts, but it doesn't list the second one unfortunately.
For 710112, the dimensions are: Shaft 50.00mm, housing bore 80.00mm, seal outer diameter 80.30mm, seal width 16mm.
The SKF interchange book does list the second number, with an equivalent of 20027. The SKF spec for that seems to be 50.00mm / 80.00mm / 80.35mm / 11mm, so very slightly larger O/D but 5mm thinner.
Looking at SKF for 710112, it lists two alternatives, 19556 and 19578.
19556: Shaft 49.50mm, Bore 82.50mm, Seal O/D 80.46mm, width 11mm
It won't load the details for 19578 unfortunately, but it's interesting that it shows as an equivalent for the Timken part even though the dimensions are slightly different.
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2018 19:16:52 GMT by droopsnoot
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Nov 15, 2018 20:06:44 GMT
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Thanks a lot for that mate.
So that's where the issue lies by the looks of it.
It would seem I need the original pn equivalent- smallest O/D seal.
I know it's 5mm thicker and it's already sitting proud but due to the amount of force it's taken I think it's due to the seal being too large rather than too thick, what do you reckon?
I was going to order the Febest one but it looks like that's identical to the 2nd number pn-
95HBY-50801117L
50x80x11x17
Is it possible to order from Timken online and do they make decent seals?
I know SKF make decent bearings and seals, I bought some steel caged bearings for a gearbox build a few years back but as you say they only list the 2nd pn.
Thanks again for the info, really helpful mate.
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2018 20:07:25 GMT by DaveEdge
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Nov 15, 2018 20:18:32 GMT
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Also I've noticed the same thing, once you start cross-referencing pn numbers the equivalents aren't actually identical in size... I think the only number that Toyota stocks (the 2nd number) is sadly the only available equivalent to the one I need, which is why I ended up in this mess...
Hopefully I can find a Timken stockist.
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Nov 16, 2018 10:13:26 GMT
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I'm not sure where you'd order them from, though while I was googling to try to get dimensions, there seemed to be listings on eBay, and on Rock Auto, assuming it's the correct part: here |
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Last Edit: Nov 16, 2018 10:15:00 GMT by droopsnoot
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Nov 16, 2018 19:17:21 GMT
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Yeah I noticed that one droopsnoot, think that might be my best shot, the ones on ebay are nla.
I'm hoping the one fitted doesn't leak but I think I'll get this one as an insurance policy hey.
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