foxy99
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Hi guys. 3 questions: - does anyone know when straight-edge blocks replaced curly edge ones?
- where the engine number is stamped (LHS of block if looking from timing chain to flywheel) 875 is cast into the edge of the block on some blocks but not all. seems that early ones don't have it. anyone know when this changed?
- can a Sport block be curly-edged
Reason I'm asking is that my car (chassis B419.... '65 but first registered Jan '67) has what I believe to be the original Sport engine block in it but it has no engine number as the engine was swapped before it was registered and someone has told me it can't be the original as it has features that only a post-1969 (Chrysler-era) block would have
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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2018 14:15:27 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,678
Club RR Member Number: 39
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foxy99
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Posts: 1,377
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Oct 15, 2018 19:13:29 GMT
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Thanks DarkspeedI visit that site quite often but your link led me to read more of it lol Anyway it doesn't have the answer for what I'm trying to establish. Basically my engine has 875 cast into the block (where the engine number is stamped) and very early Imps didn't have this. Someone is telling me only Chrysler-era blocks had 875 on them That would be 69/70 onwards I think
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Last Edit: Oct 18, 2018 0:28:48 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,678
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Oct 15, 2018 19:32:45 GMT
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Straight blocks '65 - Sports a year later in '66 - therefore no Sports can be curly blocks Thought it was all pretty clear - oh well.
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foxy99
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Oct 15, 2018 22:49:31 GMT
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Thanks for the advice but detecting a bit of impatience with remark at end.
That's the problem with being an expert I guess
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
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Have had a bit of advice from someone who seems quite knowledgeable on an Imp Facebook page. He even knows about the molds used for the blocks (RS14, RS15 etc).
Anyway he says that he has (or had) a 67 & 68 Sport/Stiletto and they both has 875 cast onto the block. The chap who told me this only featured on Chrysler-era cars (70? onwards) is going to check the drawings!
it makes absolutely no difference in real terms of course but I'm tying to establish is my engine is original to the car.
The pistons and conrods have numbers on them but they don't really tell you anything, or no-one knows what they mean. Still to check the crankshaft for clues
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1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,678
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Likewise - '67 Chamois Coupe had 875 cast - which I believe was on all the MK2 straight edge blocks. I have had sport engines from '67 to '73 and they were outwardly all the same. I have 4 here at the moment spanning 68-73 those years and they are all pretty well identical square edge 875 cast 180 head motors.
The main Chrysler differences were the oil drains, sport cams and double springs as stock with the later I4 engines - which I think came with the 533 or 553 head casting number.
There are early sport head casting numbers and if your car is an early sport that may be the better way to investigate it - find out exactly when the 180 sport head was introduced. The Imp club forum would be a far better place to ask.
Again from the link above.
All the sport heads have the oil drain (from head to crankcase) and they all use the same valve sizes. Sport head casting numbers (not a Rootes part number) with last digits ....107 : the very early sport head, possibly for use with competition cars and the dry-liner 998 Rally Imp from the end of 1965 ....162 : 162 fitted to early production Sports up to 1968; the Rallye head casting, basically the same as the 180 cylinder casting but ported and chambered for 150 CD Strombergs and 998cc. ....180 : the most common. It was the later sport head, used until the end of production. It is a thicker casting than the 107, giving more scope for modification.
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Last Edit: Oct 18, 2018 6:20:37 GMT by Darkspeed
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foxy99
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Posts: 1,377
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Oct 18, 2018 20:06:23 GMT
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Yes I obtained a 107 Sport head for mine as the original was swapped in 80s for a 533 head. When I met the guy who swapped the head (in the 90s) I didn't know about the casting numbers but I doubt he'd have known anyway. So on the lookout for a Sport head and using the Imps4ever link as a guide I bought the 107 as I figured the 180 would be too late for my car as it was registered Jan 67. I would've bought a 162 if I saw one but the Imps4ever site seems to suggest the 107 is the rarest so when one came up on Ebay for £80 I had to buy it. I'm pretty sure my block is original as the logbook says 'not stated' for engine no. and the block is blank where the stamp would usually be but someone quite established on the Imp forum is sure that an early straight-edge block can't have 875 on it. I have now had 2 people saying that they have such a thing. He has straight-edge block(s)with no 875 so it could be that both exist my original? pre-67 block has no engine number .'. difficult to date. 875 casting may or may not be relevantrecently-acquired 107 Sport head probably the right one for a car registered Jan '67
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Last Edit: Oct 18, 2018 20:08:50 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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foxy99
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Oct 20, 2018 14:21:04 GMT
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The search for clues to the age of my bottom-end goes on and is actually at the terminus now. I've checked every component and there is nothing with that might be date-related on it. However the crankshaft has something stamped on it. As well as the casting marks (although I've been told you can't call them this as the crank is forged) it shows D 85 Now this could mean anything really but it's been hand stamped and looking at a listing on Ebay it shows a quite different number P **** So it's possible this could be letter for year followed by sequential numbering. Who knows... I've been told transaxles has sequential numbering stamped on this. this is mine which fits in with Apex book estimates that around 160000 Imps made/sold pre-67stamp on crank might also be sequentialfrom the makers of Devon Custard?D85 stamped and S58 cast. what does it all mean? lol
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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2018 14:36:07 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,678
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Oct 20, 2018 15:17:15 GMT
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Is that a crack on that lower left lug?
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foxy99
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Posts: 1,377
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Oct 20, 2018 15:28:13 GMT
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No but there is a nick on the top of the lug. It's in a box in front of me.
I looked again and there is a very thin crack to the right of the lug. It encroaches about 3mm into the casting's bottom-face
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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2018 18:01:36 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Oct 20, 2018 15:58:46 GMT
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Hi, Can I offer a word of caution? Don't get too bogged down with the block and it's provenance, back in the day these engines were high tech, having a racing heritage, and gained a reputation for fragility especially if not maintained properly or adequately, often engines were swapped out for another rather than rebuild. The fact it's not numbered suggests to me it's a factory replacement or an extra block put into circulation for same.
Colin
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foxy99
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Posts: 1,377
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Oct 20, 2018 17:59:01 GMT
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Cheers colnerov The reason I'm doing all this research is that my car was modified by Rootes workers before being registered and gained quite a few bits n pieces, including the unstamped Sport engine. So it's getting a bit of special attention from me lol As you say Imp engines tended to get changed & modified and mine definitely lost its original head. The guy who did it told me he put it on a Chamois and there was also a small tow-hitch that he put on a Transit apparently. Funnily enough last week I got an email from someone who's family business owned my Imp in the 80s and he remembers it always overheating (not uncommon I believe) and last night I found one end of the water-jacket completely blocked. It's clean as a whistle now but they weren't to know that back then lol anti-freeze jelly on top of solid gunge in water-jacket. it wouldn't help car run at correct temp
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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2018 18:03:10 GMT by foxy99
1974 Daimler Double-Six VDP 1965/67 Hillman Imp pick-up 1984 VW Polo breadvan 1970s Yamaha Twins (4) 1976 Honda SS50ZK1
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Oct 20, 2018 19:28:47 GMT
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Hi, Yes, most people weren't used to Aluminium engines and the need for anti-freeze or inhibitor for the cooling system, we used to have a customer who used to supply everything for any work we did on his Imp because he used to work for Rootes (management I think). As an aside he always regaled us with stories of his time at the factory, he used to get quite agitated about Chrysler's treatment of the Rootes board when they took it over. Alas being younger then we didn't pay much attention to what he was telling us. Colin
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Last Edit: Oct 20, 2018 22:18:58 GMT by colnerov
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