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Hi, My Dad's in the process of restoring one of his classics, it has the original 1960s magnesium alloy wheels which were refurbished when it was sprayed. When the car came back from the bodyshop 3 of the wheels were losing pressure at the rate of around 1psi a day. He took the worst wheel to a local tyre-shop who re-did the rim seal and balanced it, (£20.00+) it continued to lose pressure at about the same rate. I gave it the washing up liquid test on both rims and around the valve, no leakage evident so I carried on looking at all the nooks and crannies and found a slow leak in the metal about 1 or 2 cm from the valve, we've concluded that this is corrosion / porosity which magnesium alloy wheels were known for. Without having yet checked the other 2 wheels we're assuming they're likely to have similar faults and possibly the 4th wheel won't be far behind, the refurb might well have stirred up this issue. I'm annoyed that the tyre shop don't seem to have checked where it was leaking from before doing the work or checked whether it was cured after their work by dumping it in a bath. We need to save the wheels if at all possible since the only real option would be to replace them with identical wheels of similar vintage which would likely go the same way. Has anyone experienced similar issues and DID YOU MANAGE TO TREAT THE PROBLEM? I'm assuming there might be some type of sealant we could paint inside the wheels before having the tyres put back on? Any experience / advice / anecdotes / fixes gratefully received, (and no he doesn't want some sick dishes on it! )   |
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Last Edit: Jul 2, 2018 13:27:30 GMT by MkX
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I've used the stuff you can pour in to seal small punctures, I believe it's often sold for caravan users, but there used to be a chap at some shows around here with a wheel and tyre on a stand - he'd put the stuff in, blown the tyre up, and just used to spin it and stab it with a bradawl. I think the theory is that the "stuff" comes out of the hole and seals it up.
Tyre fitters don't like it, apparently, and I've heard there are issues with getting a tyre repaired if it's had the stuff in it.
There may also be something you could just paint on the inside of the rim to seal it. I wasn't sure where mine was leaking from, and at the time couldn't do a lot of running around with wheels and tyres due to lack of space in the vehicle.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Porous wheels - advice pleasePhil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Have used Hammerite or Smoothrite in the past (when it was good...) with good effect on (albeit Aluminium) alloys that have gone porous. In short, any sort of gloss-ish paint that will stick to the base material will do the job - it's just to create a seal or skin that the air can't get back through. if you can, keep it away from the rounded edge where the tyre bead sits and let the tyre fitter use his stuff there (normally some orange semi-setting stuff I've seen used before).
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I've used the stuff you can pour in to seal small punctures, I believe it's often sold for caravan users, but there used to be a chap at some shows around here with a wheel and tyre on a stand - he'd put the stuff in, blown the tyre up, and just used to spin it and stab it with a bradawl. I think the theory is that the "stuff" comes out of the hole and seals it up. Tyre fitters don't like it, apparently, and I've heard there are issues with getting a tyre repaired if it's had the stuff in it. There may also be something you could just paint on the inside of the rim to seal it. I wasn't sure where mine was leaking from, and at the time couldn't do a lot of running around with wheels and tyres due to lack of space in the vehicle. Yeah, I've read about it, it forms 'clots' like blood healing a wound. I think it's called slime or something along those lines but I very much get the impression it's for tyres and I'm guessing centrifugal force would move it from the wheel to the tyre? |
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Thanks for the reply. Yes, it's a Genie, I think he'll talk to the GOC fellah but they're surprisingly clueless / useless about a lot of stuff. I can tell that imagewheels are going to be dear by the fact they don't publish prices, if it was an E-Type or a Jensen then a few grand wouldn't be much in the grand scheme of things but it's a Gilbern and they're not worth megabucks. I've had to work on my Dad for the past 5 years to get the bodywork sorted and know he's not about to spend another big chunk of money getting the wheels swapped out. There are things on the Ferrarichat link which look promising but, unfortunately, also look prohibitively expensive. |
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I think once they're going, they're going. Mag wheels don't last forever.
As a left-field option why not use inner tubes? You can still do that even with tyres that don't require them.
Edit.... though I think the tyre needs to be a fairly traditional profile so there may not be any available for 65 profiles.
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Last Edit: Jul 3, 2018 12:55:16 GMT by Deleted
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Porous wheels - advice pleasemk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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I think once they're going, they're going. Mag wheels don't last forever. As a left-field option why notuse inner tubes? You can still do that even with tyres that don't require them. No you can't, as most tyres are "tubeless" marked and aren't designed internally with tube fitment in mind  Also, would technically be an MOT fail as it is not fitted in accordance with sidewall instructions  (nice idea tho @quatermass) |
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My main concern would be safety aspect . Even if you can get them to stop leaking you should in a ideal world get them checked with x ray ...but i guess that is going to be expensive too.
The other option is what ever others have fitted and i suppose thats minilites in some flavour .. but no doubt rare ,and again expensive in that fit..
Its a conundrum thats for sure .
Either stop the leak with epoxy , realsteel putty etc an risk a accident or spend on something else i suppose are the options .
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I think once they're going, they're going. Mag wheels don't last forever. As a left-field option why not use inner tubes? You can still do that even with tyres that don't require them. Edit.... though I think the tyre needs to be a fairly traditional profile so there may not be any available for 65 profiles. Thanks but yes he'd already considered and discounted this idea due to the reasons given above. |
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My main concern would be safety aspect . Even if you can get them to stop leaking you should in a ideal world get them checked with x ray ...but i guess that is going to be expensive too. The other option is what ever others have fitted and i suppose thats minilites in some flavour .. but no doubt rare ,and again expensive in that fit.. Its a conundrum thats for sure . Either stop the leak with epoxy , realsteel putty etc an risk a accident or spend on something else i suppose are the options . That's the weird thing, these wheels go but I can't recall seeing any Genie or Invader wearing anything other than the original wheels. Epoxy might be the way to go but I'm wondering if it might potentially throw the balance out so far that they can't be balanced? |
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Maybe a 2 part epoxy resin but you would need a lot of it [ expensive ] and it would take ages smearing a thing layer inside - and it could crack off with temperature and shock i expect .
There really is no easy answer if you cannot spend a lot of money and even if you did a specialist may say they are junk .
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Hi, As stated Magnesium wheels had a reputation for going porous back in the day and a common remedy was to coat it with fibre glass resin so a modern equivalent would be epoxy primer. Part of the problem is that Magnesium degrades over time, they can get quite bad and I've seen them very heavily pitted at 20 years old, personally I wouldn't trust a 60 year old Mag wheel. Having said that if it was shotblasted as part of its re-furbishment and didn't raise concerns and you're reasonably happy with them then... Have a picture of how bad they can get if you want to apply pressure to the old man.  Colin |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Porous wheels - advice pleaseChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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I'd personally change them if they are magnesium wheels.
A tyre shop wouldn't be able to test for porousity necessarily. 1PSI a day isn't that much really and it isn't worth their time. A wheel refurb place would be able to check it out.
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Yeah, I've read about it, it forms 'clots' like blood healing a wound. I think it's called slime or something along those lines but I very much get the impression it's for tyres and I'm guessing centrifugal force would move it from the wheel to the tyre? There are loads of different brand names. There is some aspect of it being thrown outwards (as the instructions say the tyre needs to be rotated for a while to spread it) but I also thought that it's "dragged" toward where the air is escaping. But then I also thought it was designed to "cure" on contact with air, which is obviously not true as it would just cure when you blow the tyre up. |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,681
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Porous wheels - advice pleaseDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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I think once they're going, they're going. Mag wheels don't last forever. As a left-field option why notuse inner tubes? You can still do that even with tyres that don't require them. No you can't, as most tyres are "tubeless" marked and aren't designed internally with tube fitment in mind Also, would technically be an MOT fail as it is not fitted in accordance with sidewall instructions (nice idea tho @quatermass) Calling dougal007 to the board to provide some insight into tubes and use in tubeless tyres. Pretty sure that there will be some pretty high performance cars out there with spoked wheels - leaky - tubeless tyres - and tubes. The issue will be the 65 profile.... maybe. |
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Last Edit: Jul 4, 2018 11:26:24 GMT by Darkspeed
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Porous wheels - advice pleasemk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Nope, the issue is people not getting tube type tyres for the spoked wheels  All the new wheels one of the customers at work brings in for tyre fitting have got a bandage around them to negate the use of the tube in the first place  And fromm what I understand, there aren't that many tube design tyres sold anymore. The inside of tubeless tyres isnt smooth and rubs on the tube, weakening the tube itself and then flat tyres happen. Can also be caused by people not taking off the stickers on spoked wheels as well, had that happen many times  |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,681
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Porous wheels - advice pleaseDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
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I don't see that "tubeless" and "must not be fitted with a tubes" as the same thing - I also see no reason for it being a case that tubes cannot be fitted to tubeless tyres - sure you can get spoked wheels for tubeless tyres. However nowhere have I found a catagorical statement that you cannot and must not fit a tube to a tubeless tyre - The only aspect that I would not dispute is that you cannot fit a tube where a tube is not available for that particular size of tyre.
Likewise I have never seen a warning on an inner tube that states "must not be fitted to a tubeless tyre"
As such I think there is a great deal of fog masking the actual facts.
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Phil H
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,448
Club RR Member Number: 133
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Porous wheels - advice pleasePhil H
@philhoward
Club Retro Rides Member 133
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Having just spent a few minutes browsing the Longstone Tyres (for those who don't know, they are purveyors of classic/original tyres like the Pirelli CN36 Cinturato) website, it looks to be the case that whilst a Tubeless tyre doesn't need a tube, not all Tubeless tyres CAN have a tube fitted (and not only due to the size of the tyre).
For example - 205/70x14.
Vredestein Classic - no tube
Michelin XWX - tube can be fitted (a Michelin 14F13 if you care)
Pirelli Cinturato - tube can be fitted
Camac HP70 - no tube
So - it depends on the tyre, not the rim?
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My personal feeling on this is that you just need to bite the bullet and retire the wheels.
The cost of getting them set up with 'square' profile, tube appropriate tyres, tubes and rim liners is probably going to cost a lot more than a nice set of 2nd hand alloy wheels to swap the existing tyres on to.
The problem is these wheels are decomposing at a chemical level due to age, so it's not like there's a local area of damage you can resolve... it's more like a molecular level collapse that is just going to continue and be all-pervasive. It's going to be like shoring up a sugar cube that's been dropped into a hot coffee.
Depending on the PCD availability, I reckon a set of Rostyles would be a decent enough substitute.
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