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Jan 25, 2018 10:49:26 GMT
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If you're particularly bored here is 25 minutes of me talking about car forums and why they may be dying
Could probably have done with a tighter edit, but it is a vast subject for me.
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Jan 25, 2018 14:27:58 GMT
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Facebook doesn't help.
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kc
Kinda New
Posts: 6
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Jan 25, 2018 15:24:15 GMT
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Some great observations. I have run the JowettTalk forum since 2006 so appreciate the issues. Luckily when I was making design decisions I used the Gallery software to store media so did not suffer from Photobucket ultimatum. Whilst this was satisfactory at the time it did not keep up with the smartphone technology. Similarly phpbb struggles and has had to have some major upgrades that some boards did not implement due to impact on customisation or possibly users. What is the new software alluded to at the end of the video?
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Stu_B
Posted a lot
Investing in rust!
Posts: 1,266
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Jan 25, 2018 15:33:11 GMT
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Forums can be cliquey, and that's great if you're involved but if not it's frustrating posting things and not getting a response. I post on two large forums, here & Vzi. I don't really post in the discussion board on here so I'm referring more to Vzi when I say cliquey. I get the same one or two people commenting on my build threads. Maybe they're not interesting enough, which is fair but I think it was Dez who pointed out on here a while ago, people's threads blowing up when all they have done is stuck on a sticker and a proper bit of fabrication/modification slips down out of site. Who you know/knows you I guess.
Facebook definitely hasn't helped the forums though and photobucket was another nail. I post on a busy Beetle group of 20k and can count on one hand the amount of people who's opinions I give a curse word about. Hey, wait, that's cliquey right? Irony noted.
Not sure I like the 'like' feature on here. Sure it's an easy way to have your post acknoledged without people having to actually respond. But as far as my own thread goes, I'd appreciate a comment much more than a 'like'. It must be a knock on from my addiction to facebook and the reward system.
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Jan 25, 2018 15:44:33 GMT
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3:07... you did a swear.
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Jan 25, 2018 16:23:05 GMT
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I have been known to occasionally utter a swear. I try not to do it too often on videos though
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Jan 25, 2018 17:16:05 GMT
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So far I've only been able to skim through the vid as I was due on a client call. I wanted to check though that one of the possible reasons for the death of car forums wasn't "That idiot Quatermass who rambles on endlessly about utter guff". I guess that might be featured in one of the subsequent videos but at least for now I've dodged a bullet.
I think there are other factors at play aside from the ones in the vid... which are largely concerned with more technical aspects of forums and the impact of social media from a technical perspective.
I think we are entering a cultural phase of not over-sharing as much as we did when all of this technology first made it exciting to chat to people from all over the world. I don't necessarily think soc-med is dying but I think the exciting energy of using it is in transition away from the old way to something more personal and utlitarian. We now say what we need to say and only to those we need to say it to. There are a whole bundle of channels/platforms we can use to achieve that, and we pick the ones most suited to the intention of the message.
I think car hobby stuff is in recession at the moment too. Less people have less time to indulge in a hobby that feels like it's being slowly shunted into oblivion by legislation and changing ideas and perceptions of travel and transport. It's why I like the idea of having the phrase "Unholy Petroleum" somewhere on my car.... because I think a growing number of people find the idea of somebody driving a car like mine to be entirely unacceptable. It's noisy, polluting, inefficient, anti-social, unsafe, even dangerous to some people's perceptions. Owning an old car starts to feel like the new Hells Angels in a way. People don't like it. Some do, but many don't. So more people are less inclined to do something that goes against the social/cultural grain. Petrol is seen as the lingering 20th century evil, yet to be purged from our progressive drive towards a holistic wellbeing utopia.
I think there is some evidence for a decline in car hobbyists in the ongoing closures of auto-parts suppliers. My local, Cliffords, has this week announced it's closing down. Granted thats been forced by a decision to renovate the street its on, but they could have relocated and were offered a relocation package. Instead they've decided to call it a day. Business aint what it used to be.
Car culture is in recession at the same time that social media diluted forums and forums stopped being the exciting prospect they once were.
This stuff goes in waves though, and it will survive. i think the VW scene is a microcosmic example of the ebb and flow of interest. It trundles along with a few enthusiasts for a while, then it has a huge popularity surge and absolutely everyone has to have a VW, then it self-overkills and falls back down to the hardcore devotees for a while. Same with the 50's scene (fashion, not cars) there's always the hardcore keeping it alive, but every decade there's a massive swelling of interest and it goes mainstream, until it burns out and returns to the faithful as an underground niche.
I think we're entering 'faithful underground niche' territory after a decade of mainstream popularity.
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Last Edit: Jan 25, 2018 17:17:53 GMT by Deleted
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Why are car forums dying?luckyseven
@luckyseven
Club Retro Rides Member 45
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Jan 25, 2018 17:58:45 GMT
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It's not often I'd listen to any one human blather on for twenty-six minutes on anything, so well done. Some of what you say even makes sense I find the use of "leverage" as a verb upsetting though. Please don't do it again
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voodoo57
Club Retro Rides Member
That's not 2 metres! come a little...Closer!
Posts: 2,753
Club RR Member Number: 137
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Why are car forums dying?voodoo57
@voodoo57
Club Retro Rides Member 137
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Jan 25, 2018 18:44:52 GMT
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All i will say is this..... Retrorides has cost me nothing, helped me out as i like to think i have helped others out by using it, Although i don't agree with certain cars being on here, or even understand how someone get's the 'Horn' over a mk4 Fiesta? BUT! i visit it regularly, I don't do face-book, and i am quite happy reading thru the odd thread, some things make me laugh, others make me shout 'I Want one!' but as mentioned before, it's free! It's good to know there are those out there willing to participate and contribute so I for one am very pleased and appreciate all what has been and is being done.
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Jan 25, 2018 19:32:51 GMT
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Good forums won't die, i find it hard to take facebook seriously, just seems to be full of numpties who have an opinion but unfortunately have no knowledge to back it up. Idiots asking the stupidest questions that can be answered with the first result of a google search. The trend of people on forums just been dicks to other people for no reason other than to boost their own ego. Thankfully that seems to be kept to a minimum on here. Forums can be cliquey, and that's great if you're involved but if not it's frustrating posting things and not getting a response. I post on two large forums, here & Vzi. I don't really post in the discussion board on here so I'm referring more to Vzi when I say cliquey. I get the same one or two people commenting on my build threads. Maybe they're not interesting enough, which is fair but I think it was Dez who pointed out on here a while ago, people's threads blowing up when all they have done is stuck on a sticker and a proper bit of fabrication/modification slips down out of site. Who you know/knows you I guess. Haha, i fully agree. I do love reading the chat section on VZI as they are some really interesting stuff and people on it, but rarely bother to post because 9 times out of 10 your post will get ignored, while they just chat amongst themselves. You see it all the time, someone unknown/low post count etc will reply with a good post, yet it will be ignore and trivial posts replied to instead.
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luckyseven
Posted a lot
Owning sneering dismissive pedantry since 1970
Posts: 3,839
Club RR Member Number: 45
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Why are car forums dying?luckyseven
@luckyseven
Club Retro Rides Member 45
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Jan 25, 2018 20:18:20 GMT
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All forums are like that to an extent, blokes meet at shows or whatever and strike up together and that friendship keeps going onto the forum. Have to be honest, I didn't bother signing up to RR for ages after lurking because of that... it seemed very cliquey and in-crowd at the time and I couldn't be bothered to try to break in, as it were. VZi is the most incredible example I've seen of it on any forum though, posting there is like being Alan Rickman in Truly Madly Deeply. It's like.... you can see me, right? Right? I know you're there, I can hear you breathing... Even Yank forums are more inclusive, where at least they talk to you just to tell you they don't want foreigners on their patch That sort of thing didn't seem to appear on HoTWire 's ummmm... thing... and I think you underestimate the power of welcome and inclusion in forum health. Whilst we might all like to think we build or mod a car based solely on what we want to do and damn everyone else's opinion, I think in the wee dark hours when we can no longer lie to ourselves, we all crave a bit of acceptance and recognition for what we do. Otherwise, why put it on a forum/Facebook/Insta/Whatever at all? That's the two-edged sword of a "Like" button... while it's easy enough to entice any fool to press it and thus looks like an interaction has taken place, it's also faceless and in no way a means of communication. Personally I hate it and try not to use it if at all possible. If someone's gone to the effort of producing something you like then the least you can do is "reward" that effort by saying so and why. People who spend time writing/photographing/building/leveraging are not going to bother putting it onto a forum if all they get is tumbleweeds and a couple of Likes. But then, I don't need to care about generating or promoting a forum's profile in search engines. I'd understand a Like function more if that's what it achieved Starting to ramble now. Have some originally-generated content selected totally at random Ford pickup 41 by Nick Liassides, on Flickr
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Last Edit: Jan 25, 2018 20:19:15 GMT by luckyseven
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Jan 25, 2018 20:35:46 GMT
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Hotwire - firstly many thanks for taking the time & effort to explain the problems - its already prompted a response from the forum admin of the club that I retain membership with - There are a few points made within the context of the replies that I would not mind picking up on - some 'forums are cliquey' - correct but then again so are a good lump of the car clubs and much to their own determent - it's has though it's an accepted practice or principle in some clubs / forums - my own answer to that is that I just find a different club or forum has personally I won't tolerate such nonsense.
Quatermass - makes a point that the car hobby stuff is in recession within the current market - it's a fair point that people in general do lead every increasingly busy lives but there is no way that the interest in the classic / retro car is declining - In fact it's growing very strongly year on year - I see it at both ends of the spectrum both has a club committee member of a small car club sub 600 members worldwide but also has a small business that specialises in restoration. Chat round some of the other clubs confirms that interest & activity is very high - the classic market it's self is very strong - demand for stock is being outstripped and the workshops that provide good quality work are booked 12 - 24 months in advance across the board.
Getting back to the core subject of forums that relate to retro / classic cars - the largest challenge is the same one that all the clubs have and that is to 'How we Appeal / Engage / Retain the Younger Generation' What we have / own is only in our custody / ownership for the duration of our lives - how do we ensure that it survives into future generations and if we cant engage the future generation then how do you secure a future for what you own / drive.
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ftz313
Part of things
Posts: 221
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Jan 25, 2018 20:46:22 GMT
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Misuse or misunderstanding of the legislation is what is killing car forums like this-sadly.
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it's a fair point that people in general do lead every increasingly busy lives but there is no way that the interest in the classic / retro car is declining - In fact it's growing very strongly year on year - I see it at both ends of the spectrum Fair point GN. As a general rule I have a long and proud history of making confident statements and prognosis on the internet without any evidence to back them up. I'm quite well known for it in other areas of internet life. = ) To clarify my comments (or attempt to), I personally think that as a very mainstream trend, it has peaked and is now in recession... to the extent that it's not currently deemed to be particularly fashionable, trendy or cool to be getting into retro cars in the way it has been for the last decade. My real life work is in the very fuzzy and highly subjective field of watching culture evolve, so I tend to look at the things that brands do in an attempt to seem cool, relevant, desirable. Mainstream brands are often lagging behind the cultural zeitgeist, so when lots of brands are using old cars in their advertising/marketing and on their products/packaging, it's a safe bet that it's already becoming a mainstream trend... otherwise they wouldn't have latched on to it. When they move on from that to something else, it's safe to say that the energy of that trend has expended and people who merely latch on to trends have stopped being so interested in it. So I guess in that sense my point was the 'fad' followers have probably moved away, and so the swelling in numbers that the mainstream trend caused will then sink back down to the genuine devotees. It's all highly subjective, and based only on no research whatsoever, however I cite the recent explosion and then sudden decline in numbers of people buying VW campers for insane money and giving them funny names and being ridiculously proud of them. The VW scene proper still thrives and prospers, but the fair weather fad followers have now moved on. That will surely be reflected in the amount and style of dialogue in online VW forums. Just a hunch.
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I used to be a huge VW fan (still am, admittedly) and used a lot of the forums (CGTI, E38 etc) but found the arguing and the falseness tiring. If a car wasn’t BBS rims Airride and OE cool it was ridiculed. I stopped visiting them a few years ago, and then discovered this place, having been a lurker for a few years. Granted, most of my projects are moderns at the moment but the inspiration here is phenomenal and the community that doesn’t exist on many other forums. Sure, PB’s emise hurt things a little but people have found ways around and I view the recent threads every day for a fix of something that isn’t necessarily a VW but is cool in its own way, something that faceache can’t do as that’s all very directed - its the eclectic people here like
Sam
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I've not watched fully till the end (yet), so apologies if you go on to mention it. I think youtube also has a part to play as well. A big feature of a lot of forums was picture heavy how-to guides. The effort to create these kind of posts look time, whereas now a lot of this stuff is on youtube. Personally i'm still trying to adapt, as I love a good how-to guide!
But life is change.. I'm going to be shutting down my site this year (as i don't update it/and it's not the way people want to comsume car related information anymore). Time to start app building..
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Jan 26, 2018 10:06:57 GMT
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I used to be a huge VW fan (still am, admittedly) and used a lot of the forums (CGTI, E38 etc) but found the arguing and the falseness tiring. This, in some ways, reflects my experiences of the Scimitar forum although I must say that my impression was not as negatively framed as yours is here. I spent about 18 months on the Scimitar forum, chatted to a lot of great people and frankly took a lot of sound advice and help from people who knew far better than I did what I was dealing with. I will be eternally grateful for that. But, for me personally the problem became that I had absolutely nothing to offer that niche discussion group. I was literally just there asking for help and giving nothing back. Part of that was the fact that I have a grotty, very non-standard Scimitar, and I have a distinct sense of what I will and wont do with the car... and it's personal between me and my car. I wont do anything to permanently alter it for the worse (ie I'm not going to start cutting chunks off it or radically altering it) but at the same time I'm never going to aspire to make it 'correct' either. So I found I came up against a bit of a barrier in terms of idly discussing ideas I had had for doing things that were not the proper way to do them. Whilst nobody there was fascistic in their attitude, it did frequently become a bit pointless airing any thoughts on doing something because the response would often be "Why are you doing that? You should just fit the proper thing". There was a small bunch of people who weren't concerned with the right way and to varying degrees were motivated to do things that suited them. I found that those people were often faced with a diffident reaction and invariably they stopped posting after finding themselves in arguments... a few times those people left because they'd offered me advice in my progress thread, and had met criticism for doing so. The seemed to be along the lines of the club not wanting it's forum filled up with misleading advice that deviated from the club's intentions towards preservation. At that point I realised I would never have anything to offer, and rather than getting embroiled in some of the tensions I left and returned here. So rather than arguing and falseness, it was about insistence on correctness and irritability with anything that wasn't correct. I think there's a blurred line between general interest that welcomes all and a hard kernel of determination to maintain a focus and a certain standard of discourse. I sometimes feel I skate close to that line when I'm here, but this does feel like a place that can tolerate rambling diversions a bit more than a focussed car forum without tipping into the gladiatorial pit of Pistonheads where everyone wants to be the alpha male. RR has a focus on car stuff, but it's not a place where people need to stick to the Haynes manual for their chosen ride. I like the fact that people will have an opinion, but nobody judges. It can tolerate people like me who are dabbling somewhat blindly whilst others are meticulously building/rebuilding something with immense skill and dedication. A broad church with firm foundations and inspirational windows into other worlds.
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Jan 26, 2018 12:20:04 GMT
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Personally I really like the relatively basic forums, I don't want any "likes" silly things like that, leave all that borraks to Facebook. it all works just fine, don't mess with it that said, I once looked at Reddit, and that was a bit of a mindfuck, really couldn't understand how it worked, just no structure whatsoever, a bit like facebook without a nice interface!
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