haggis
Part of things
Posts: 459
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Nov 13, 2017 17:31:39 GMT
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I was bored.....OK! I've had a few scanners over the past year, some just for fun but ill review what I've tried. I used them on various vehicles but I'm pretty VAG biased since the missus car is a 2005 mk1 TT and it likes a warning light. 1. The Cheap and nasty Ebay £3.09 Vagcom.  I couldn't resist purchasing this. It was either going to be a complete bust or the best thing ever for the money. You guessed correctly, it didn't work! The disc was totally blank, and testing it with another copy of vagcom didn't work either. Straight in the bin!!! 2. Can Amazon do any better??  £15.88 means this is another tempting bargain. It has good reviews but I found it repulsive to use. Horrible Chinese malware infested rubbish for an app! I literally tried this for 3 minutes and decided it was causing too much of a headache to try and work. at least when you buy on amazon you can return it, just remember you have to pay postage!!! 3. Back on ebay, glutton for punishment!  Now I did have a little bit of a tip for this one. At just over £50 it is an ABSOLUTE GEM! Once again its a knock off but boy does it have some features. With an audi A4 convertible I am currently working on I could fully diagnose every system, test everything such as doing a solenoid function test for the convertible roof and I haven't tried every function yet. I will definitely be keeping this bad boy! 4. A second hand professional tool  This Autel DS708 was definitely the most complete tool, but for a second hand one you are talking between £450 and £600. You also have to tread very carefully! I bought my machine for £400 and it worked fine for a few jobs until a friend asked me to copy a key for his audi. the bloody thing froze everytime I tried to connect to the cars computer. So I called autel uk. "Yes sir that's a common problem with the older models, the only way to fix it is to update for £300" £300!!!!! I nearly fell over. I had to do it to save face but the machine did pay for itself eventually and then some! This machine has the ability to code cars. What that means is if you put xenons in your car you tell the car, "You have xenons now" In my case it paid for itself with my 2003 E320 CDI. It had a problem with the adaptive headlights. New xenon headlights were around £300 a side. All I had to do was plug Mr Autel in and tell the car, you don't have adaptive headlights anymore. Problem solved! The next time I used it was on the same car. Go to any website and see how much it is to get a towbar fitted on one of these. It'll probably be around £750 because it needs coding. I spent £150 on a removable towbar from Poland, £130 on a trailer module from a towbar dealer and coded it myself. 2 mins with the autel and the car knows it has a towbar. Even a Merc indy wanted to charge me £60 to code this and it took all of 2 mins. RESULT. In the end I think it shows if you spend a bit more then these machines can be useful. I know this is retro cars but most cars 20 years old have some form of OBD system. Plus, I reckon most peoples SWMBO cars don't have twin webers and a coil. food for thought... |
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heathrobinson
Part of things
Broken everything
Posts: 848 
Club RR Member Number: 111
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Nov 13, 2017 18:43:00 GMT
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I've been looking at these lately, having finally got something newer than OBD1... It's really good to have some practical experience to guide my decision. Thanks!
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ian65
Part of things
Posts: 276
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Nov 13, 2017 19:10:30 GMT
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great post and reviews... very interesting... thanks very much for posting
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Nov 13, 2017 22:47:16 GMT
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I found a similar thing with cheap code readers too.
IME INPA is invaluable on something like BMWs. If you get it off someone like Cableshack you'll also get NCS-Expert which can code things as you say. With the Flash lead you can also map aspects of the car yourself too. I know on the M3 the lead has paid for itself a few times over, as well as a mate's E46.
VCDS is a superb bit of kit, but it does cost and like INPA is marque specific. In this case it's for VAGs only.
For the Fords I use ForScan. You need a modified ELM327 lead with a switch fitted to access the different modules on the car. But you can now buy rigged Bluetooth and for the iPhone/iPad folk a wireless module. It can do live data but IMO it's not as good as VCDS or INPA. It is however easy to use and the cost of the lead/Wireless device to buy ; The software is free. It's been very handy to me over the years on Fords.
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Last Edit: Nov 16, 2017 7:24:37 GMT by ChasR
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Nov 14, 2017 11:34:55 GMT
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Interesting that you had trouble with the cheapo VAGCom cable. I bought something similar to that picture and it's been fine. Originally I couldn't get it to talk to the car (2000 TT) but when I tried it in a different USB socket, it worked. As it's a bit of an old laptop, I'm not sure whether to fault the cable, the driver or the laptop.
As for the dearer one and the £300 upgrade, I guess if you're using it enough then it pays for itself. I have a similar dilemma in that I've got a Sun gas analyser, but it's run out of time on the calibration so it won't give any readings. If I call Sun (well, Snap On now) they want £200-odd to calibrate and remove the time-block, but as it's only for my car, I can't justify the cost.
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Nov 14, 2017 11:54:52 GMT
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I've got two OBD readers, one is a bluetooth one that lives in my Volvo C30 and one is a plugin one for the Subaru Impreza. They have been super useful both of them. Originally got one because the engine warning light came on in the Subaru and I wanted to find out why before spending money on it. Turns out it was an exhaust sensor being a bit silly.
Both of mine were under £20.
Oh yeah and the Bluetooth one I use Torque(lite) on my phone. The plug in one I have software for on my laptop which I can't remember the name of :/
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Last Edit: Nov 14, 2017 11:55:44 GMT by HoTWire
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Nov 14, 2017 12:43:20 GMT
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A good thread and some useful information!  Hopefully I can add constructively. Those of you who read my ramblings know that for a certain Land Rover product I have a Nanocom Evo, made by BlackBox Solutions, which is capable of reading every system on my Range Rover. It wasn't cheap at a shade over 300 quid, but has easily paid for itself time and again. There's nothing on the vehicle I can't diagnose, look at, adjust or clear faults from. For example, when I reverted to air suspension from coils, I could happily set the various heights at my leisure to suit my slightly different wheel/tyre combination. The owner of BBS is even a member of a Range Rover forum I'm on and will happily point you at an answer to any question. The reason I mention all this is that there seems to be a bit of confusion over what ODB readers can do. Seems that once the ODBII became the industry standard (at different times, on different vehicles and in different markets around the world) most half decent, and even cheap, readers can look at things like engine fault codes and other basic stuff. However, bespoke systems, e.g. Range Rover's air suspension, transfer box, air con, BECM, etc., cannot be read by off the shelf stuff. They need appropriate readers and some are good, and some next to useless. And the point of this? Just a warning that some vehicles are happily interrogated by most readers, but some aren't and need one more specific if you want do delve a bit deeper. Do your research before you buy and you'll be happy. Also remember that some of the proper manufacturer specific ones arrive VIN locked, i.e. they'll only talk to your vehicle and a license required for any other, same model or not. My Nano will interrogate any P38, which means I can (and have) help other folk out. I can also, of course, get licences for any other LR model should I wish to. Just something else to bear in mind when spending the bucks. I just see many times on Land/Range Rover forums where someone has gone on ebay, bought something, maybe not even that cheaply, and is now complaining he can't see the position of the flaps on his heater blend motors. |
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Nov 14, 2017 21:54:11 GMT
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Bookmarked I'm on 2 minds about this thread, on one hand I'm not sure it feels right bringing OBD code readers onto a Retro forum. On the other hand - I ordered a £30 handheld yesterday for my modern-ish BMW and would really appreciate any tips on how to use it !  (I've borrowed a commercial Snap-on Solus in the past but not used a hobby type code reader before) Idiot level instructions are fine - I guess you plug it in before you turn on the ignition |
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haggis
Part of things
Posts: 459
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Nov 14, 2017 22:19:32 GMT
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I guess it depends on your concept of retro. Her little cousin jumped into her mk1 TT the other week and said oh this is retro!
To me as cars get older they become retro. I drive a lot of hire cars, brand new things with heated seats, Bluetooth and a usb port.
My 2010 BMW 5 GT feels retro sometimes compared to an ordinary hatchback nowadays. I jumped in a diesel Qashqai yesterday and it has lane detection, xenons and accident prevention! all stuff my GT doesn't!
as for using a scanner they are super simple. plug in, ignition on and scan. some cars require you to scan the individual area you want such as the engine or transmission. Some scanners like the autel will scan everything and tell you everything that's wrong!
its just a bit of trial and error. you can clear faults as many times as you like but 9 times out of 10 it wont fix the problem.
it will only give you a step for a hint!
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Bookmarked Idiot level instructions are fine - I guess you plug it in before you turn on the ignition You may also find that you need the key in different positions to access bits as well. I know that on mine, it can't access the engine without the ignition on or running, but the key needs to be in position 2 to read the BECM. Also you may find that on clearing a fault, you need to turn the ignition off for a few seconds, otherwise the fault stays "live" although I guess this could depend in the car, the reader and the fault. Fortunately the Nanocom has a really good forum along with loads of on-line information (not that it's any consolation to non-LR owners!) |
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its just a bit of trial and error. you can clear faults as many times as you like but 9 times out of 10 it wont fix the problem. it will only give you a step for a hint! And if its a hard fault, then true it won't, you'll need to fix the source. But it's surprising how many soft faults get thrown up, especially if a vehicle has been through a few owners who've done "stuff" to it. I used the number of alarms on the message centre on mine (mainly surrounding the earlier removal of the air suspension) as a great bargaining chip, but cleared the lot off in less than five minutes with the reader. |
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düdo
Part of things
wide as house
Posts: 770
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I can't offer comparisons as I've only got one : iCarsoft OB2 i902 for Opels. Available for your preferred marque  I've got a few different 90s Opels and this thing is compatible with vehicles from '97 on. €120 and it covers all the systems. Well built, simple to use and long guarantee. Does the job. |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017 7:13:02 GMT by düdo
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,191
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Bookmarked I'm on 2 minds about this thread, on one hand I'm not sure it feels right bringing OBD code readers onto a Retro forum. On the other hand - I ordered a £30 handheld yesterday for my modern-ish BMW and would really appreciate any tips on how to use it ! (I've borrowed a commercial Snap-on Solus in the past but not used a hobby type code reader before) Idiot level instructions are fine - I guess you plug it in before you turn on the ignition When this forum started it was full of 70 and 80s cars, especially J-Tin stuff. That was back in 2004, when I first discovered this forum. Time does move on . It's scary to think I have wasted been on this forum for over 15 years, where it was one of the quieter forums for quite some time. ANYWAY, What BMW do you have? Don't look at anything else and just pay the £30 for INPA from someone like Cableshack. In short: -It reads all codes, including BMW specific codes for all of the modules. -Live data is given, from things like throttle position down to what the parking sensors are seeing. This can be invaluable in a number of circumstances -On cars like mine it can teach in things, like the clutch position after a clutch change/work and I believe code some parts like new parts etc. -It can read pretty much every module on the car. It's downsides are that it's not the slickest interface to use ; you can only scan the modules one by one for true information unlike ForScan (Fords) and VCDS. The latter have much better interfaces here for that. But for a £30 tool INPA is worth it's weight in Gold. I didn't give much info here, but the U380 reader was useless for finding a misfire on my M3 ; it claimed the car was fine despite it being down a cylinder. INPA pretty much told me from the off. Yes I could have gone old school but considering it is/was a daily, time was of the essence, especially when at that time it was being used by two people every day. theleylandlegends.wordpress.com/2017/07/26/an-e46-m3-is-just-for-christmas-not-for-life/ |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017 8:05:52 GMT by ChasR
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Onne
Part of things
Posts: 822
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Nov 15, 2017 10:27:12 GMT
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Does anyone use anything at home that OBD1 Mercs will talk to? I'd love to have a STAR machine, but they cost as much as the car... But can read fault codes for my parking sensors etc, even before OBD2!
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1990 Mercedes W126 300SE
1997 Mercedes W140 S320L
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Nov 15, 2017 12:57:07 GMT
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Does anyone use anything at home that OBD1 Mercs will talk to? I'd love to have a STAR machine, but they cost as much as the car... But can read fault codes for my parking sensors etc, even before OBD2! I'm using this www.autelstore.co.uk/wholesale/autel-autolink-al319-obdii-can-code-reader.html , no issues but will not diagnose any faults other than engine. It suits my purpose as I sometimes mount it on the dash (for live data ) it's very light and simple to use. I'm fairly sure Autel offer code readers that will have far greater diagnostic functions. Also another popular one for Merc's is the iCarsoft brand. |
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Last Edit: Nov 15, 2017 19:42:20 GMT by Woofwoof
Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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haggis
Part of things
Posts: 459
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Nov 15, 2017 19:29:34 GMT
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Does anyone use anything at home that OBD1 Mercs will talk to? I'd love to have a STAR machine, but they cost as much as the car... But can read fault codes for my parking sensors etc, even before OBD2! The autel DS708 should be able to talk to your merc. I found the star machine to be a load of curse word. It took an hour for an indy to check my faults on my e320 whereas the autel took literally 5 mins. the only problem is the price really |
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Nov 15, 2017 20:39:09 GMT
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I've got two OBD readers, one is a bluetooth one that lives in my Volvo C30 and one is a plugin one for the Subaru Impreza. They have been super useful both of them. Originally got one because the engine warning light came on in the Subaru and I wanted to find out why before spending money on it. Turns out it was an exhaust sensor being a bit silly. Both of mine were under £20. Oh yeah and the Bluetooth one I use Torque(lite) on my phone. The plug in one I have software for on my laptop which I can't remember the name of :/ how do you find it works on the Volvo? Can it reset service intervals etc? I have just purchased the Carista app for the Audi which should allow me to access menu to change things like dial sweep on start up and mirror dipping when you senect reverse |
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Nov 15, 2017 21:19:56 GMT
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ive used the first cable type you posted on various vw's with vagcom and its worked perfectly, Also used it with INPA on a few BMW's and that has also worked perfectly.
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haggis
Part of things
Posts: 459
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Nov 17, 2017 16:08:53 GMT
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Never underestimate stupidity too. Been diagnosing a fault with an A4 convertible. Roof wouldn't go down, scanner said the door modules were missing. Took the door cards off to find that the door modules were all unplugged! Plugged them back in, roof fixed.
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Nov 18, 2017 23:01:26 GMT
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All this hi-tech stuff is great, but old-school still has it's place  I've been getting various warning lights on a modern'ish BMW, last week it stalled and refused to crank on the starter. A few days ago I got a neat £30 BMW-specific code reader which identified a faulty sensor. spec : blog.eobdtool.co.uk/how-to-read-bmw-fault-codes-with-c110-code-reader/ The sensor was replaced (BMW-dealer-only ££££  ), everything looked ok but the car still wouldn't start. I spent a few days checking the battery cables and tracing the starter circuit but couldn't find a problem. Eventually resorted to removing the starter (after having to remove a lot of the wiring / pipes / manifilds for access ), and found the starter is tiny, light, and totally dead. A new starter motor and it's working fine. The code reader is great and very good value, but the non-starting fault was eventually traced using a £5 multimeter  |
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), everything looked ok but the car still wouldn't start.