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Oct 10, 2017 20:36:35 GMT
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I thought that I should ask this question Here as there is lots of conflicting information around!
I am considering fitting some lighter weight front seats that are more supportive than the standard fitment in my W202. That obviously brings me to the important question of passenger safety......
Now harnesses as far as I’m concerned are only safe if fitted correctly at around shoulder height and fitting them to the rear seatbelt mounts in the floor is just plain stupid (in crash situations) and damn impractical as it means total removal of the rear seat!
That brings me on to the aspect of fitting a harness bar at the strongest part of the car, between the B pillars at or around shoulder height. This in theory should position the harness anchor points at the safest place and also allow for rear seat passengers still.
Does anyone have any experience in doing this and any of the pitfalls involved in fitting in this way?
Thanks for any input given as at the moment as it’s just throwing ideas around and whatever I decide to ultimately fit .... I want it to be safe
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Oct 10, 2017 20:38:55 GMT
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they go on the rear stays of the cage.
if there's no cage then I would not use harnesses or fixed back buckets.
if you want to use the rear seats just forget the buckets and harnesses totally.
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Oct 10, 2017 22:09:50 GMT
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a 2 inch piece of CDS tube right across the rear passengers eye line doesnt sound great either (headbutt)
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Oct 10, 2017 23:25:02 GMT
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Looks like a more supportive seat is the way to go for now then.
Hadn’t considered the headbut risk if I’m honest.
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harness' & rear passengers are a No-No. for all the reasons stated above.
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Take the Next slot right coming up on the left.
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Curtis
Part of things
Posts: 622
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Despite the information above, I have seen harness bars mounted between the original seatbelt mounts on the B-Pillar. Mounted closely enough behind the seats, rear seatbelts should mitigate any headbutt risk, though you could wrap them in thick foam to soften them
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Driving: Shitbox Honda S-MX
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That was the initial idea, I mostly travel solo in the car but there are occasionally times that I carry rear seat passengers. Hence the original query.
Would be nice to keep the practicality for the occasional use.... however, safety’s the primary concern.
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Oct 15, 2017 17:14:14 GMT
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Read up the Msa or fia guidelines for harness fitting. Gives some good info on the angles that are safe and minimum distances from the rear of the seat, crossover of belts etc. You will loose the rear seats tho and would need a cage as mentioned previously. More supportive seats are your best bet if you want full use of rear seats. Try getting the seats from a c 43
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Last Edit: Oct 15, 2017 17:16:00 GMT by indyz12
ClassicResto.co.uk - Restoration and maintenance of classic cars - Wolverhampton.
2002 Mercedes E320CDI Estate 1998 Mercedes C240 Sport 1995 Mercedes SL500 1993 Mercedes 500 SEL 1993 Mercedes 500SL - Sold October 2022 1989 Mercedes 300 CE 1985 Mercedes 500 SEC 1985 Porsche 911 Carrera - Sold March 2022 1983 Porshe 944 1978 BMW 1602 1973 Mercedes 350SL
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Harness bar fitment question.slipngripross
@slipngripross
Club Retro Rides Member 149
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My advice would be don't fit fixed back bucket seats and harness in acar with no roll cage. If the car rolls you wont be able to move when the roof caves in and you more likely to suffer serious injury.
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Oct 30, 2017 23:28:10 GMT
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My advice would be don't fit fixed back bucket seats and harness in acar with no roll cage. If the car rolls you wont be able to move when the roof caves in and you more likely to suffer serious injury. That’s an excellent point you make.... I have been in a serious high speed roll situation where the roof did cave in substantial amounts. I never really considered the fact that a fixed back seat would cause issues ..... but you are right, it actually would! If the roof caved and you were fixed to the seat (unable to be moving around). I could see how that would result in serious injury or worse, death! I would say that it never happens, it can and does. Usually when least expected. This is why it’s important to ask these questions and look at the bigger picture. You guys are awesome for your input. It’s really opened my eyes to the bigger picture here 👍. Thanks
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Harness bar fitment question.slipngripross
@slipngripross
Club Retro Rides Member 149
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I spend alot of time on track but actually in some ways the road is more dangerous with trees, kerbs and other cars etc. I'm afraid most of the cars people like us enjoy also crumple like tin cans so any improvement in safety is a bonus. Pics of My fast road/track car for next year which has an MSA approved cage even though i wont be competing. It really means i can push the car to its limits knowing that if i have a crash i have a good chance of still saving driver and passenger from serious injury. Of course for most people cages simply arent practical or family friendly for road use.
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The whole issue of cages and harnesses in road cars is very fraught. As slipngripross says, adding a cage adds significant structural strength to the passenger cell of the car. Unfortunately, that strength comes at the expense of big lumps of metal inside the passenger cell that are almost exactly at head height, so unless you're wearing a helmet, it is questionable if a cage adds to your 'total safety'...all depends on the type of accident you're planning to have!
As for harnesses, I use the OEM seat belt mounting points for the lap strap part, after all, the car designers have spent £Millions getting Type Approval and crash tests done to prove the strength of those points. The more difficult decisions come with the shoulder points, and if you've got them the crutch points.
On my rally cars, I used to use the the rear seat seatbelt mounting points (obviously with the rear seats removed). The angles are generally within the MSA allowance/regulations (45 deg iirc), but there's no doubt in a head-on crash you'd get a significant downward force on your shoulders as your get moved forward and hence the shoulder straps get pulled down on to the seat tops (or cut outs if you're using competition buckets).
I've now got a cage with a harness bar built in, and I spec'ed it so the harness straps are as close to horizontal as the regs allow (15 deg below horizontal iirc). Having had to, errr, dynamically test the cage and harnesses, I can say that worked quite well, in so far as the only personal injury was in the nethers from an slightly under-tightened crutch strap that allowed me to mover forward about 25mm before coming to a rather sudden stop...let's just say I had a squeaky voice for a while after the accident!
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