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Sept 17, 2017 8:34:56 GMT
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Confused and concerned....... So, take my Triumph: modified from standard 1300 Toledo spec to Dolomite Sprint spec in about 2000. Engine, transmission, brakes, rear axle, all from the Dolomite. Monocoque unchanged. Those mods mean I have less than 8 points I guess, though it now basically reflects another OEM model in the range. So, I'll have to now get type approval and it sit on a Q plate? Maybe that was the case anyway before these changes?
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2017 9:00:32 GMT by alolympic
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,072
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Sept 17, 2017 9:29:33 GMT
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Confused and concerned....... So, take my Triumph: modified from standard 1300 Toledo spec to Dolomite Sprint spec in about 2000. Engine, transmission, brakes, rear axle, all from the Dolomite. Monocoque unchanged. Those mods mean I have less than 8 points I guess, though it now basically reflects another OEM model in the range. So, I'll have to now get type approval and it sit on a Q plate? Maybe that was the case anyway before these changes? Monocoque unchanged 5 points. Steering unchanged 2 points. Suspension unchanged (front and back) another 2 points. Would give you 9 points. But yes, even before the latest announcement, you've been sailing close to the wind. It's quite bizarre, because secondhand components of identical spec to original, on non numbered components like suspension and steering parts cannot be challenged. Similarly, there appears to be no restriction on fitting upgraded parts if you've bought them new as direct replacement for the originals. A coil spring is a coil spring isn't it? Regardless of rate and length?
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Sept 17, 2017 10:43:23 GMT
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I don't mind the requirement to be MOT'd. Indeed I feel a better simpler system would be Is it a car used on the road? then it needs an MOT Seems simple. Under the new system it seems that my car will loose it's numberplate and become Q plated. Simple enough, it scores around 2/8 on the points system (or will do) but as long as it gets an MOT why should I loose my age related plate. It's part of the cars identity. I don't actually want a Q plate
Also under these rules, if I wanted I could buy a cheap pre 81 car and tool around in it essentially forever without MOTing it ever again. Surely this can only result in MORE unsafe cars running around as people who can't afford to maintain cars look for cheap motoring? I know all cars are required to actually be roadworthy regardless of an MOT cert but this does rather rely on police or DVLA spot checks to enforce.
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This space available to rent. Reach literally dozens of people. Cheap rates!
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,642
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 17, 2017 10:47:28 GMT
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So under this DRAFT with your Toledo "My understanding" is that it would be considered "substantially changed" so not a VHI and will need an MOT same as it does now - In your case absolutely nothing would appear to be changing.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,072
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Sept 17, 2017 11:04:12 GMT
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I don't mind the requirement to be MOT'd. Indeed I feel a better simpler system would be Is it a car used on the road? then it needs an MOT Seems simple. Under the new system it seems that my car will loose it's numberplate and become Q plated. Simple enough, it scores around 2/8 on the points system (or will do) but as long as it gets an MOT why should I loose my age related plate. It's part of the cars identity. I don't actually want a Q plate Also under these rules, if I wanted I could buy a cheap pre 81 car and tool around in it essentially forever without MOTing it ever again. Surely this can only result in MORE unsafe cars running around as people who can't afford to maintain cars look for cheap motoring? I know all cars are required to actually be roadworthy regardless of an MOT cert but this does rather rely on police or DVLA spot checks to enforce. In all honesty though, how long do you think that you could drive a 1970s unmodified car for without maintaining it to at least MoT standard or modifying it considerably? Any cars of that era that are truly capable of being used as daily drivers are either going to be significantly expensive enough that you'll effectively be saving nothing, or the kind of one-owner garage find Talbot Horizon that'd have you wanting to slit your wrists within a fortnight.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Shortcut
Posted a lot
I won't be there when you cross the road, so always use the Green Cross Code.
Posts: 3,037
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Sept 17, 2017 12:25:24 GMT
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In your case absolutely nothing would appear to be changing. Apart from the requirement to run it on a Q plate? That's really the only bit that annoys me. i can't see a reason for it.
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This space available to rent. Reach literally dozens of people. Cheap rates!
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Sept 17, 2017 13:01:07 GMT
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In your case absolutely nothing would appear to be changing. Apart from the requirement to run it on a Q plate? That's really the only bit that annoys me. i can't see a reason for it. If it's just 'substantially changed' and scores 8 or more points then I read it as you retain the registration, tax free status, but continue with annual mot's. You only need a Q plate, IVA blah blah blah if you fall outside the 8 points system, which has been the case for years anyway? How the points are applied seems to be the ongoing issue that's not been clarified or updated to suit the changing world, but has always been noted as vehicles will be considered on a individual case by case basis.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,642
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Sept 17, 2017 13:37:17 GMT
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In your case absolutely nothing would appear to be changing. Apart from the requirement to run it on a Q plate? That's really the only bit that annoys me. i can't see a reason for it. No requirement to run it on a Q plate.
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Sept 17, 2017 16:33:13 GMT
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Are rebodys still ok to do if say you use a 2004 donor.Or will they stop us doing a rebody
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Peace,Max signature height = 80px
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Sept 17, 2017 18:42:02 GMT
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Under the new system it seems that my car will loose it's numberplate and become Q plated. Simple enough, it scores around 2/8 on the points system (or will do) but as long as it gets an MOT why should I loose my age related plate. It's part of the cars identity. I don't actually want a Q plate If you score less than 5 for the chassis it's automatic IVA - that's not changed.
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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Sept 17, 2017 18:45:59 GMT
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And as penance for a thread with a pic of one transit - this "road legal" Scimitar had its V5C cancelled a few years ago.
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2017 18:46:40 GMT by scimjim
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Sept 17, 2017 19:01:02 GMT
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so will my 63 Tbird with airbags need a mot or need to be declared as modified .it still retains the standard arms on the front with just a different strut and has air over leaf on the back. its all bloody confusing and will no doubt be open to hearsay and pub talk to start with ,as no one truly understands it.
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66 Beetle
63 thunderbird
97 mx5
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Sept 17, 2017 19:42:10 GMT
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Most people understand it now and all its permutations and it's only two days since its been announced.
The only bits people don't understand are the bits that require further clarification before these changes come in.
For the majority of people, it's not going to make any difference, apart from a few who now don't need MOTs who did, and even less who didn't need MOTs but now do.
The most important part to note is its almost entirely upon the owner to declare (or not as the case may be) if that's changed for you. So basically if you don't go incriminating yourself, nothing is different.
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2017 19:43:25 GMT by Dez
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Sept 17, 2017 21:05:06 GMT
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I have 2 Vauxhall engined Triumphs, A Toledo and a Dolomite Sprint auto.
Now, the Toledo will need to be MOT'd in perpetuity (no bad thing) cos its power output has gone from a stock 61 to it's current 130 ish and the car has also been considerably lightened. Like Aloympics car, it still retains 9 points on the BIVA scale so I get to keep my free tax! Even the hole I cut for the gear lever is in a bolt in panel and not part of the untouched monocoque!
The Sprint however, STARTED with 127bhp so the 140bhp motor I have fitted will keep it inside the 15% increase limit. Especially since the new lump is somewhat heavier and the car is fully trimmed. This car also carries it's 9 points so no worries there. So (in theory) I have a substantially altered car that still meets all the criteria for MOT exemption!
The Toledo, which is on the road already, is correctly registered as a 2 litre car with the changes made on the V5 in 2011 so I can't play the pre 88 card and the Sprint WILL be declared before it hits the road, so it looks like I will have to declare it modified, even though it meets all the stated rules for VHI! TBH i'm not really fazed by all this, it's just one more hoop to jump through. I'm more than happy to MOT my cars whether they "need" it or not, IMO ALL cars should have an MOT regardless, a point I made when I completed the survey (being one of the responsible 2000)
Yes I can see a time coming when we will all be forced into autonomous electric cars and our wonderful, noisy, smelly, polluting gas guzzlers will be relegated to museums. And we'll have to have a few good wars to control the population instead of letting the Darwin awards do it for us on the roads! Hopefully I won't live long enough to see it!!!!!!
But for now i'm gonna keep driving and enjoying my modified classics for as long as they'll let me!
Steve
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Last Edit: Sept 17, 2017 21:11:37 GMT by carledo
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Sept 18, 2017 5:46:44 GMT
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weight is also open to some manipulation, the industry standard is kerb, which includes full fluids, whats to stop you adding a extra fuel tank or massive washer bottle?
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Sept 18, 2017 8:13:50 GMT
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This will most likely end the Mini, if they send it for an IVA it will not pass on stupid things like the original door handles, angles on the wings, roof gutter, seams etc which are all by design. The fact that the suspension is better than original, brakes far superior to original, emissions lower than original, structure stronger than original is irrelevant to these muppets. I was quite happy to still pay tax and have an MOT as this was a car which is used on the road, not every day but often. If there was an option to simply keep paying Tax and having MOT that would be great but this will force you into either lying on an official government form or stuffing yourself by ticking the radically altered box and being singled out. Time to sell up I think as the whole point was to have the car usable on the road not just at the track Really sick of the vendetta against car enthusiasts.
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Sept 18, 2017 8:34:15 GMT
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Are rebodys still ok to do if say you use a 2004 donor.Or will they stop us doing a rebody I'd suggest that it depends on just what you mean by a 'Re-body' Replacing a monocoque bodyshell with anything other than a new factory (or replica ie, Heritage Mini/MGB etc) is really nothing more than 'ringing'
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Sept 18, 2017 8:35:03 GMT
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I'm a bit confused as getting no straight answer on various forums/discussions. My car is a 1958 Ford Prefect 100e so is mot and tax exempt. It's got a full chassis, 5 litre v8, 9" axle etc so it's radically modified. All the modifications were done before 1988. So where do I stand with it? Does anything change, will it need to be mot'd now, will it need BIVA, will it get a Q plate???
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Sept 18, 2017 8:37:52 GMT
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This will most likely end the Mini, if they send it for an IVA it will not pass on stupid things like the original door handles, angles on the wings, roof gutter, seams etc which are all by design. The fact that the suspension is better than original, brakes far superior to original, emissions lower than original, structure stronger than original is irrelevant to these muppets. I was quite happy to still pay tax and have an MOT as this was a car which is used on the road, not every day but often. If there was an option to simply keep paying Tax and having MOT that would be great but this will force you into either lying on an official government form or stuffing yourself by ticking the radically altered box and being singled out. Time to sell up I think as the whole point was to have the car usable on the road not just at the track Really sick of the vendetta against car enthusiasts. The thing is, that if your mini was liable for IVA before these rules were introduced, then it still is! YOU have been cheating and you have no reason to grouse about getting caught up with! If it WASN'T liable for IVA before, then it still isn't and you have nothing to worry about and can go on driving it. The IVA regs have been in place for many years and anyone building a modified car SHOULD be well aware of them and their implications by now! My sympathy is with the guys who built hotrods and modifieds in the 70s and 80s, when the IVA rules did not exist and now find themselves, through no fault of their own, with an unregistered car that cost thousands to build and will now need many more thousands spending to return to the road. Just because someone moved the goalposts! Steve
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Sept 18, 2017 8:50:27 GMT
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This will most likely end the Mini, if they send it for an IVA it will not pass on stupid things like the original door handles, angles on the wings, roof gutter, seams etc which are all by design. The fact that the suspension is better than original, brakes far superior to original, emissions lower than original, structure stronger than original is irrelevant to these muppets. I was quite happy to still pay tax and have an MOT as this was a car which is used on the road, not every day but often. If there was an option to simply keep paying Tax and having MOT that would be great but this will force you into either lying on an official government form or stuffing yourself by ticking the radically altered box and being singled out. Time to sell up I think as the whole point was to have the car usable on the road not just at the track Really sick of the vendetta against car enthusiasts. The thing is, that if your mini was liable for IVA before these rules were introduced, then it still is! YOU have been cheating and you have no reason to grouse about getting caught up with! If it WASN'T liable for IVA before, then it still isn't and you have nothing to worry about and can go on driving it. The IVA regs have been in place for many years and anyone building a modified car SHOULD be well aware of them and their implications by now! My sympathy is with the guys who built hotrods and modifieds in the 70s and 80s, when the IVA rules did not exist and now find themselves, through no fault of their own, with an unregistered car that cost thousands to build and will now need many more thousands spending to return to the road. Just because someone moved the goalposts! Steve If the IVA was more sensible then that would be great and it would be fine on all key items but it focuses on items that are original by design which won't pass, just because it's not a rod then obviously the 1000's hrs work which I have put into the car is irrelevant. Maybe if they applied some decent fair regs then people wouldn't try to be in grey areas all the time. All the engine changes etc were registered legally at the time the build was started, maybe I was naive at the time not so aware of the points system on a modified car having assumed the SVA at the time not IVA applied to only kit cars.
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Last Edit: Sept 18, 2017 8:55:42 GMT by miker33
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