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Jul 30, 2017 14:30:21 GMT
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Have you ever been sat at home watching tv, while your car charges, and unexpectedly needed to go somewhere but couldnt because you didnt have enough charge? Not yet. Okay, so Winter comes and we get told about power shortages. This is without the massive drain that electric cars will pull. If by 2040 most people have electric cars, we would have to have a massive amount of power to allow every household to plug their cars in for hours at a time. Come 6pm every night when people come home from work, millions of cars will get plugged into the Nation Grid. Are you saying that this rather antiquated country will have enough juice to power all these cars on top of the all the electric gadgets etc that people will have by then? Vehicle to grid technology. Basically, smart usage of electricity. Electric cars have/are a very big battery. Electricity production and use don't always match. Power stations can't be turned off (it's why we have 'economy 7') and most renewable sources aren't constant. Imagine, instead of wasting generated energy,- and instead of having to increase production and predict higher potential loads we stored it and used it when we needed it. The National Grid is currently paying some firms to use electricity. So that excess energy? Goes into cars. When everyone wants to boil a kettle in the Coronation Street ad break? Instead of straining the grid - it comes from the car...the more cars, the less strain (boiling a kettle uses about 0.04kwh - hardly a dent on the 27kwh battery in our Kia). Everyone driving to work...if they've plugged in when they get there what they've actually done is moved the electricity they need to where they need it. The cars get charged when power is available (when it's sunny or windy - or when the power stations are over-generating and the grid borrows a bit of it when it's needed. Your car is full when you need it (you tell it when you want it to be ready) and nearly full if you've got to go and pick little Jimmy up because he fell over at school. The 'internet of things' also means more and more stuff can 'talk' to the grid and use electricity more wisely. |
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sonus
Europe
Posts: 1,386
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Jul 30, 2017 15:05:36 GMT
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Have you ever been sat at home watching tv, while your car charges, and unexpectedly needed to go somewhere but couldnt because you didnt have enough charge? Not yet. Okay, so Winter comes and we get told about power shortages. This is without the massive drain that electric cars will pull. If by 2040 most people have electric cars, we would have to have a massive amount of power to allow every household to plug their cars in for hours at a time. Come 6pm every night when people come home from work, millions of cars will get plugged into the Nation Grid. Are you saying that this rather antiquated country will have enough juice to power all these cars on top of the all the electric gadgets etc that people will have by then? Vehicle to grid technology. Basically, smart usage of electricity. Electric cars have/are a very big battery. Electricity production and use don't always match. Power stations can't be turned off (it's why we have 'economy 7') and most renewable sources aren't constant. Imagine, instead of wasting generated energy,- and instead of having to increase production and predict higher potential loads we stored it and used it when we needed it. The National Grid is currently paying some firms to use electricity. So that excess energy? Goes into cars. When everyone wants to boil a kettle in the Coronation Street ad break? Instead of straining the grid - it comes from the car...the more cars, the less strain (boiling a kettle uses about 0.04kwh - hardly a dent on the 27kwh battery in our Kia). Everyone driving to work...if they've plugged in when they get there what they've actually done is moved the electricity they need to where they need it. The cars get charged when power is available (when it's sunny or windy - or when the power stations are over-generating and the grid borrows a bit of it when it's needed. Your car is full when you need it (you tell it when you want it to be ready) and nearly full if you've got to go and pick little Jimmy up because he fell over at school. The 'internet of things' also means more and more stuff can 'talk' to the grid and use electricity more wisely. My local hospital has looked into the possibility to use TESLA Model S cars as back up power in emergencies. They would sign an agreement with the TESLA owner to drive to the hospital and plug in to their power supply to run the hospital. It would be possible, but at the current state there isn't a method to get the power back out of an EV. Here in Norway new car sales are heavily populated by EVs as theyare tax and VAT excempt making a TESLA Model S 90 the same price as a BMW 520D x-drive M-sport. |
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Last Edit: Jul 30, 2017 15:08:29 GMT by sonus
Current
1968 TVR VIXEN S1 V8 Prototype
2004 TVR T350C
2017 BMW 340i
Previous
BMW 325d E91LCI - sold
Alfa Romeo GTV - sold
Citroen AX GT - at the breakers
Ford Puma 1.7 - sold
Volvo V50 2.0d - sold
MGB GT - wrecked by fire
MG ZT 1.8T - sold
VW E-golf Electric - sold
Mini Countryman 1.6D -sold
Land Rover Discovery TD5 - sold
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Jul 30, 2017 15:42:49 GMT
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See, that is what I was getting at. We have no idea how culture and modern life will be in 25 years time. There have been enormous shifts in attitudes, knowledge, technology and priorities in the last 25 OR SO (ffs) years. Who is to say that car ownership will even be common in 25 years? "Back in my day we used to have a car each and maintain it..." "Why? What's the point in that, Granddad?" Much in the same way speaking to our older generations, life they grew up with is almost alien to us.
Judging the future in the standards and context of today just doesn't work so far ahead.
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Ryannn
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,421
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Jul 30, 2017 16:12:25 GMT
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Lease cars, buy phones lol
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Jul 30, 2017 21:05:58 GMT
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I'm just waiting for the 'internet of things' to get hacked and simple items start acting weirdly or not at all.
I-Robot anyone?
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Jul 31, 2017 16:07:59 GMT
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So around my way there are a lot of Prius's used as cabs. But I've been looking and there are very few pre-2008 cars around, which would be in private hands by now.
I see Toyota also now offer a lower warranty on the Prius than they used to - used to be 8 years and now 5? Good luck with having an old Prius type vehicle is all I can say.
(although I do have a secret fetish for a 62-plate in white I see around my manor - must be my age lol).
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,697
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Jul 31, 2017 20:02:06 GMT
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If nalesutol does not pull his finger out they will have cut two groves in the tarmac of Santa pod and the staging area will have a credit card swipe. You wont be hauling batteries up the strip - Just engage the braids  You may even hear the sound of a Skylark over the whistle of a 3 second pass  25 years is no time at all - But it's easy for issues like this to be put out there when there is no risk of any immediate political fallout - let's face it - if all 3 main parties decided to increase diesel and petrol costs by a factor of ten and ban cars powered by those fuels from major cities as a main policy at the next election - Clarkson would be Prime Minister... Things like this are thrown out there to gauge the mood. It also provides incentives for investments into a) alternative liquid fuels b) Electric vehicle infrastructure. As been said a lot can happen in 25 years should the will be present. A prime concern to any nation is energy security and as we are a net importer of our fuels and need the taps to be kept on to keep us running, it's important that as a country we look to reduce our dependency on imported fuel as the world could become a pretty volatile place as the main fuel stocks start running low. IC engines will run on biofuels derived from all sorts of alternative green clean fuels it just needs the investments to get them going, same with electrics. I will just be looking forward to the threads on here about " My Ethanol 'still build project" And "Syngas Volvo 240 project" as well as @johnnybravo thread when his triple rotor is converted to brushless DC - although he may as well be thinking about that already.... Dig a hole in the garden and save that poop - "compressed biogas turbine powered Lada" project coming to a virtual reality interface module near you soon... It seems like yesterday I was going to get fried in a Nuclear holocaust with a minutes warning - Having to drive electric in 25 years does not seem the end of the world - things change - not always for the worst. |
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Last Edit: Jul 31, 2017 20:02:54 GMT by Darkspeed
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The way I've read it is that cars solely powered by petrol or diesel won't be able to be sold brand new by 2040.
We'll still be able to buy second hand (i.e. retro!) Petrol and diesel cars.
We won't be forced into purely elctric vehicles.
I see it as a push more towards hybrids, of which I envisage two sorts - the first type with electric motors and an IC engine working together so the car decides on the best combination of power supply, and the second type being an electric vehicle with a built in IC generator that will run at a constant speed to top up the batteries but not contribute to powering the vehicle at all.
As Darkside says above, there will be a move towards bio-fuels so I can see these new hybrids being able to burn pretty much anything.
Watch out for all this around 2050 as the government of the day misses target after target (at least that won't change...)
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1968 Cal Look Beetle - 2007cc motor - 14.45@93mph in full street trim
1970-ish Karmann Beetle cabriolet - project soon to be re-started.
1986 Scirocco - big plans, one day!
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I find the idea of full size slot cars at Santa Pod highly amusing. Could actually be a good thing as an additional racing class.
The drawback I see with bio fuels is the amount of land and energy used to grow them, particularly when this displaces food crops. Fine to utilize waste products like used chip oil but there will be nowhere near enough of this if everyone wants it.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,697
Club RR Member Number: 39
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I find the idea of full size slot cars at Santa Pod highly amusing. Could actually be a good thing as an additional racing class. The drawback I see with bio fuels is the amount of land and energy used to grow them, particularly when this displaces food crops. Fine to utilize waste products like used chip oil but there will be nowhere near enough of this if everyone wants it. You are thinking too current - there are plenty of desserts out there where fuel can be made rather than just pulled up out from under - Look up things like Audi E-Fuel and CO2 derived Ethanol production, Algea fuels - It will all required electricty to produce and the better scheme is to use the energy directly rather than convert it but there are huge opportunities and potentials for future fuels let alone what may happen if we finally crack cold fusion - still a way off. Whatever the future is it will have to do without fuels from fossils. Consider this plants just convert air, water and sunshine to grow - we then boil them down to make biofuel - The plant is just a biochemical machine - replace the plant and all you actually need to make fuel is air, water and sunshine all we need to make is the plant. I suggest everyone books a test drive in Tesla - or gets a trip in a quick hybrid. |
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Consider this plants just convert air, water and sunshine to grow - we then boil them down to make biofuel - The plant is just a biochemical machine - replace the plant and all you actually need to make fuel is air, water and sunshine all we need to make is the plant. Its been done. They are called bioo cells. |
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I've been for a ride in a Toyota Camry hybrid taxi. I was quite impressed with the way it went.
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I don't get all the negativity with the idea of electric cars, even my 9 year old daughter said "but I don't like electric cars" today!  |
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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I don't get all the negativity with the idea of electric cars, even my 9 year old daughter said "but I don't like electric cars" today! Its because modern electrical stuff lacks the soul, charm, romance and beauty of their mechanical counterparts. In fact it is true of mechanical stuff too when you consider old vs new. Steam trains vs Diesel Electric Paddle Steamers vs Modern ships Any prop plane vs jet And old planes vs modern Old steam engines vs any modern electric engine (mining lifts, pumps, anything...) Traditional windmills vs well, anything. Traditional water wheels vs anything Tall ships vs any other ship It's how it is I guess. You don't look at your smart phone or laptop with anything like the wonder you would look at Charles Babbage's efforts, or Alan Turing's deciphering machine... Electric cars are a tool, a damned good one. We,as a species, have a love affair with the imperfect and the temperamental, because that's what makes a machine like us, not perfect. Flawed. Its the same nostalgic rose tinted drive that pulls you to retro cars. The fact is, an internal combustion engined car has a beating heart that needs TLC from time to time. An electric does not. |
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Last Edit: Aug 2, 2017 19:00:47 GMT by fad
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Actual car enthusiasts are a minority. Most people won't really care what's powering their car as long as it works. At the moment electric cars are at an equivalent stage in their development to where petrol cars were in 19120. Definitely improved from the early efforts but still too expensive for the majority of the population. Petrol pumps were quite rare then and for most people steam trains or push bikes were the most practical way to get around.Britain's first petrol station By 1949 (I'm excluding the six years of WW2) cars had improved massively, come down in price a lot and weer generally more user friendly and towns were being planned around mass car use. From this.  to this. .jpg) So imagine the Nissan Leaf or BMW i3 is the equivalent of the top one, we're just waiting for a 21st century Alec Issigonis to emerge. Britain's first petrol station
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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So here is some of the commitment towards the 2040 plan already in the making. Shows pure dedication.
100 Million up the swanny..
Lets not drive this forward, lets stick plasters and bodgery over the damage we're already doing at great cost so it can continue for a bit longer.  |
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi
1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack
2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8
2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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So here is some of the commitment towards the 2040 plan already in the making. Shows pure dedication.
100 Million up the swanny..
Lets not drive this forward, lets stick plasters and bodgery over the damage we're already doing at great cost so it can continue for a bit longer. Why not just spend the £100million on planting trees instead?! |
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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There are people being paid lots of money to come up with this sh1t which is on par with a 10 year olds very good school project. Someone involved with this had better come on here and make me see a bloody good reason why this is happening... My life! We're doomed.
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi
1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack
2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8
2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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There are people being paid lots of money to come up with this sh1t thats what is good about retrorides discussions, people coming up with a load of sh1t for free  |
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rude
Part of things
Posts: 537
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Are they being paid well enough?
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1986 Haunted BMW E24 635CSi
1999 Povo spec BMW E36 1.8i Touring Work Hack
2001 Petrol annihilating Discovery V8
2000 Jaguar S Type 3.0 V6 ~NEW~
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You may even hear the sound of a Skylark over the whistle of a 3 second pass 
