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Jul 14, 2017 18:03:52 GMT
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Hello, Sooo.... my rear wheels were looking a bit lost, so I had them banded 1.5" each side, but in retrospect it's possible this was a bit bold. It's toight! Like a toiger. My arches have rather a lot of filler in them, both sides, and the left rear wheel is just so close to it, I can't get my fingers between the arch and the wheel all the way around and it scrubs quite badly on left turns. Now because it's only filler that's rubbing, I don't think there's any huge danger, nothing that I can't keep an eye on anyway, but it's not taken the letters off my tyre or anything! Now... there are things I'm going to do straight away - sand down the filler because it's pretty lumpy and I reckon I can lose quite a lot of it (although the car is currently making a pretty good start on this!) and I'm also going to replace the centring pins on my leaf packs as they are both snapped. However... I'm not sure this is going to be enough. Is a panhard rod the answer to this? If not, what is? Cheers
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Jul 14, 2017 18:27:56 GMT
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Anti-tramp bars? Address the arches and get that filler replaced for steel too and roll the arches a touch? *edit* 4 link kit was what I was thinking when I said anti-tramp www.ebay.com/bhp/4-link-suspension-kit
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2017 18:31:23 GMT by fad
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Jul 14, 2017 18:29:08 GMT
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yep panhard rod or watts linkage, panhard is usually easier to do but the axle will move sideways slightly as it swings, a watts always stays centred.
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Jul 14, 2017 18:30:47 GMT
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The arches come right down over the tops of the wheels, so I think getting the filler rubbed down as much as I can (or yes replaced with steel) is my best bet on that front.
The lateral movement, if I can stop it, will sort it I guess.
Aren't anti-tramp bars more of a forwards/backwards thing?
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Jul 14, 2017 18:32:37 GMT
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Edited my response. I was thinking of 4-link. That'd keep it nice and straight, no?
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Jul 14, 2017 18:40:19 GMT
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So to add to a car with nothing, and presumably no aftermarket stuff just... available, is a panhard rod my best bet do you think? They're the simplest, right?
I reckon if the axle was properly centered, I'd have about 10mm either side.
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Jul 14, 2017 19:05:11 GMT
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Hi, Yes, a panhard bar, but make it as long as possible to reduce any lateral movement it will have because of it moving through an arc, certainly less than you have already. However do the spring pack centre pins first because that maybe enough. Also check the tightness of the 'U' bolts because they may have worked loose as the centre pins are compromised. Usually leaf springs are good at controlling lateral movement.
Colin
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Last Edit: Jul 14, 2017 19:07:04 GMT by colnerov
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Jul 14, 2017 19:32:05 GMT
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Will check all of that, cheers. Don't get me wrong, there isn't a lot of lateral movement, it's just very tight because there's an extra three inches on the track now!
I will see about having someone make me up a panhard rod.
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Jul 15, 2017 16:02:16 GMT
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Fiesta mk1/2 have quite a nice unit which might adapt easily?
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Jul 15, 2017 17:57:09 GMT
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I saw something simple in one of the car mages (Classic Ford / Performance Ford ?) a few years ago, simple bolt-on triangulation from the front spring eye to the diff housing area. Seller "Caprisport Direct" has something similar for sale on that auction site. I'd think it would work better mounted at the front spring eye (onto solid chassis point) not part-way along the spring see item 222467589641 or search for "Capri Rear Axle Location Kit" all credit for the photos to seller "CapriSport" :
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Jul 16, 2017 20:37:38 GMT
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I can't see how the Capri sport one would work? They're attached to each other already! To the spring eye though definitely, might be quite a simple answer, cheers.
Will look at the fiesta ones too
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,194
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jul 16, 2017 21:33:54 GMT
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I can't see how the Capri sport one would work? They're attached to each other already! To the spring eye though definitely, might be quite a simple answer, cheers. Will look at the fiesta ones too Many Capri owners would disagree there. One which is Will Holman, editor or Practical Performance Car who ran one on his V8 Capri. I recall reading that it was about one of the best things he did to the vehicle. It's also what Tickford fitted to the Capri Turbos. If a 2.8i is what I remember it to be I can imagine why that kit would improve it ; they moved around like mental on the rear even with little throttle! Page 12-13 will prove that. issuu.com/ppcmagazine/docs/ppc_issue_1_completeI'm guessing it's to do with surface area, but moreso triangulation ; a right angle join is generally stronger when a cross brace is attached. Strut towers tend to have this for example. Another way to bring down a wayward end is poly bushes. I know when I fitted Superflex bushed to my MGB it transformed the rear end of that and it wasn't that bad before! As for 4 link my Carina has that. Even with a modest 88BHP it still has a Panhard rod ; I suspect it's down to poor location from the 4 links alone.
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Jul 16, 2017 21:41:43 GMT
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Well there we go then! Might be worth looking into!
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,712
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Jul 16, 2017 21:46:51 GMT
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a 4 link alone only centres a rear end if its triangulated. the triangulation negates the needs for the 5th link, the panhard rod.
strictly speaking, a panhard rod doesn't centre a rear end, but it does control it lateral movement. it will only ever be 'centred' at one point in its travel, usually when the bar is level, depending on how you have it set.
in a real world application, itll do what you need, as long as you adjust it right, and is probably the simplest and cheapest solution. a watts linkage is arguably the 'best' solution, in that it controls the rear end movement AND centres it, but is a little more complicated as its basically two panhard links and a bellcrank mounted to the axle.
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Last Edit: Jul 16, 2017 21:49:14 GMT by Dez
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Jul 16, 2017 23:09:46 GMT
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To the spring eye though definitely, might be quite a simple answer, cheers. Happy to help The original one I saw used an extra-long (double length) bolt through the front eye of the leaf spring. The new "tie bar" was made from box / tube, it had an eye at the front to fit over the "extra" bit of bolt (use another front spring bush? or Polybush?). A basic bit of boxing on the chassis to support the end of the longer bolt ( so it looks like an extra front spring support) The rear end of the "tie bar" was same as photos above, and clamped to the axle near the diff casing. Pics if / when done please, I 've been thinking about doing something similar to mine for a while
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Jul 17, 2017 11:35:24 GMT
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Not to be obvious, but why not just make up another set of wheels 1/2" narrower? Going to be easier than the panhard bar in my estimation.
Keep in mind that a panhard is actually going to move the axle sideways a bit as it does its job. So while the rear will move less than with leaf springs, it will need sideways room.
If you do go ahead with the panhard, take time to make the mounts on the body and the axle very strong; the loads are quite high and it will tear sheet metal out of the car.
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Last Edit: Jul 17, 2017 11:36:01 GMT by bjornagn
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Jul 17, 2017 12:00:56 GMT
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I can't see how the Capri sport one would work? They're attached to each other already! To the spring eye though definitely, might be quite a simple answer, cheers. Will look at the fiesta ones too I get how they work. So... In order for the axle to move side to side, it has to flex where the leafs meet the axle. If you brace that with a triangle, it means that the flex cannot take place (or rather, takes place in two places and is much reduced), which would stop the movement almost completely, since the only place it can now flex musch is where the leafs attach to the car. Clever, I like it.
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fad
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,781
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Jul 17, 2017 12:04:38 GMT
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Not to be obvious, but why not just make up another set of wheels 1/2" narrower? Going to be easier than the panhard bar in my estimation. Keep in mind that a panhard is actually going to move the axle sideways a bit as it does its job. So while the rear will move less than with leaf springs, it will need sideways room. If you do go ahead with the panhard, take time to make the mounts on the body and the axle very strong; the loads are quite high and it will tear sheet metal out of the car. That's for offering an utterly sensible, simple, down to earth solution to a ridiculous problem that should not have happened in the first place. We are trying to over engineer a car here, not create simple, workable solutions. Get back in your box. LOL
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,342
Club RR Member Number: 84
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Jul 17, 2017 12:44:56 GMT
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Fix what you've got first, make sure the leaf pack is centred on the axle pins. Fixing your arches is a double win.
Then poly bushes in the spring ends to reduce movement.
Then those capri braces are supposedly very good at reducing the flex as mentioned, through triangulation. They're also bolt on so a simple no fabrication needed approach.
Next step is narrower wheels.
A panhard rod, 4 link rear end etc is overkill for what you're trying to achieve. You're talking chassis mods for the rear suspension to stop your wheels rubbing on the arches?
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Jul 17, 2017 12:57:50 GMT
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I'm looking to make sure it stays centred, if fixing the centre pins doesn't bring it back to where it wants to be.
Having a bit of width off the wheels is obviously one solution but I don't want to do that if I don't have to because I like the look of it. Also I'm not denying that it's very obvious and very sensible! I'm prepared to do some work though however to get the look I want but I'll start simple by sorting out the leaf packs and replacing bushes.
Cheers all
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