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May 12, 2017 17:41:21 GMT
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^ it's interesting to see so many different opinions on this thread ( "Historical is optional", "Oh no it isn't" etc ) It's always a good idea you put a link to support what you're saying, so everyone knows where you got the info (Your mate in the pub, UK.GOV website etc) classics.honestjohn.co.uk/news/comment/2015-03/classic-car-tax-exemption-what-you-need-to-know/I can't believe the authorities are making the change just so us car folk can put a black & silver plate onto our 1973 Retro. BenzBoy posted cars must "be registered within the ‘historic vehicles’ tax class" so the plates will identify vehicles on historical tax. Should I be getting concerned??? Sorry Nomad but that honest john site is full of bloke down the pub type info and generally not to be relied on.
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May 12, 2017 19:24:52 GMT
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IIRC, reflective plates came into use in 1968. I cannot imagine any buyer of a new car back then purposely requesting black and silver plates when they would automatically get new fangled bang up to date 'futuristic' refective plates for their super modern car. I appreciate its very much an each to their own thing but, personally, black and silver plates look utter gash on anything built after 1970, or there abouts. They just don't look right! ^^^ This ^^^Fitting black and white plates to a seventies car is just a recent fashion . Reflective yellow/black plates were the norm from late sixties . Look at seventies TV and films (actually filmed in the seventies) and you will see what i mean .
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MOT requirements and the law are different tho, right? bit like for the MOT your speedo doesn't need to work - just not be obviously damaged; whereas driving without a working speedo is illegal... The wording for the mot RFR is 'obviously inoperable', if it obviously doesn't work it's a fail. Close enough Now this is an interesting point as A vehicle can pass an MOT but you can be done under Construction and use and possibly other areas of the law. Your speedo being a good example, but just to show how complex it can get some Mopeds never had speedos fitted from new, so are exempt. The main point is you should always be cautious if you think you may appear to be breaking the law as you may well be right but its often not worth the stress of a court visit to prove that and some times our actions can bring the wrong sort of attention to us. I too wonder if its made to make older vehicles stand out as having different plates as many other countries do?
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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Had black and silver plates on my 86 Capri for years now....
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Had black and silver plates on my 86 Capri for years now.... Thats fine but all it takes is some one who wants to enforce the letter of the law and it could be a simple " Get them changed"or a day trip to court on some charge. Being from an off reading / 4x4 background we always tried to blend in so as to not draw attention as once spotted some coppers will dig deep. My mate had a minor RTA, but the police chose to go to town on him and though he had done all he could bar weighing the trailer He had even spoke to the trailer manufacturer to confirm weight etc he was done for being over weight ( trailer was the deluxe heavy duty version so was about 50KG more but virtually impossible to tell), they took him to the cleaners even though the accident wasn't his fault.. My main point is we all have enough stress in our lives with out any more so its best to not draw attention unless you are 100% certain the plate is correct and easy to prove with a correct legal link to VOSA MOT etc.
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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May 13, 2017 15:24:51 GMT
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I believe once you car is classed as Historic (tax free) you are then entitled to use Historic plates. It is you yourself that converts your car to historic status once it's eligible. So if you want to keep on paying tax, using yellow / white plates you can. is that what google told you? never read so much bulsh1te!!!! I speak from experience on this. Although I do agree with you some people in the Internet to talk bullsh1t.☝ When my escort became tax free I didn't even know I was entitled to it. DVLA still took my money. The next time tax was due the post office sent off my log book but it still came back as plg. I went to different PO and they said that there is an option to convert to historic and the computer accepted it and off I went with my free tax. If you don't tell them they keep charging. Bullsh1t indeed Mr Poprodder
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May 13, 2017 19:25:19 GMT
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Whilst I can't imagine anyone in their right mind turning down free road tax, "Historic IS optional in the sense that YOU have to apply for it! If your car turns 40 years old and you just continue to tax it as usual, the government will quietly and happily accept your money. I know someone who did this (in ignorance of the change of rules) for 2 years. Did he get a refund? What do you think?)
I can categorically state that the black plate elegibility DOES now follow the rolling Historic date. However Black plates ARE entirely at the owners discretion. ATM no-one will MAKE you fit them! It's a personal taste thing and personally speaking, neither of my Historic cars are old enough to have carried a black plate when new so I see no reason why the should have them now. I am sticking with the Yellow/White plates.
Steve
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OUTRUN
Part of things
13...
Posts: 620
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May 13, 2017 19:29:17 GMT
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It worries me when rules like this come in that separates classics from "normal" cars. To me it's another step towards restricted use for historic vehicles. I'd rather pay my road tax, have yearly MOTs and be able to use my classics like any other car but I can see a time when that won't be the case. I can't think of any reason why they would change the black and silver plate cut-off year other than to have a handy identifier for historic vehicles. If it is a rolling 40 year rule it's going to look odd when Mk3 Escorts and the like are wearing them! A few years ago I bought one that was wearing them lol But they didn't stay.
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I need your help to get back to the year 1985.
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May 13, 2017 20:18:45 GMT
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Whilst I can't imagine anyone in their right mind turning down free road tax, "Historic IS optional in the sense that YOU have to apply for it! If your car turns 40 years old and you just continue to tax it as usual, the government will quietly and happily accept your money. I know someone who did this (in ignorance of the change of rules) for 2 years. Did he get a refund? What do you think?) I can categorically state that the black plate elegibility DOES now follow the rolling Historic date. However Black plates ARE entirely at the owners discretion. ATM no-one will MAKE you fit them! It's a personal taste thing and personally speaking, neither of my Historic cars are old enough to have carried a black plate when new so I see no reason why the should have them now. I am sticking with the Yellow/White plates. Steve That's Bullsh1t Carledo. Ask Poprodder. He knows everything.
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May 13, 2017 21:18:38 GMT
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The Historic Vehicle exemption for black and silver plates, and the Display Of Registration Marks Legislation are at odds with each other over this issue. The Display of Reg Marks still clearly states that only pre-1973 vehicles can wear black and silver plates. It changed last year to include 'historic vehicles'
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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May 13, 2017 21:52:47 GMT
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The Historic Vehicle exemption for black and silver plates, and the Display Of Registration Marks Legislation are at odds with each other over this issue. The Display of Reg Marks still clearly states that only pre-1973 vehicles can wear black and silver plates. It changed last year to include 'historic vehicles' I can't see an entry on Legislation.gov which details any amendment after 2009. Do you have a link?
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May 14, 2017 17:25:28 GMT
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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May 14, 2017 18:04:07 GMT
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Yes, that's what I mentioned previously. The DVLA policy regarding Black and Silver plates being linked to Historic Vehicle status is at odds with the Display of Registration Marks Regs (which the DVLA are not responsible for), which in its current revision still says only pre-1973 vehicles may wear them.
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Last Edit: May 14, 2017 18:05:05 GMT by VIP
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blower
Part of things
Never mix Cider and Red Wine , Thats 1 of my Life Lessons . J.C.
Posts: 252
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May 14, 2017 18:45:01 GMT
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I'm reading it as if your registered Historic , then its free tax and black plates, if you want to
So ... Whats this Registration mark regulations then ? Link ?
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May 14, 2017 19:35:02 GMT
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So if DVLA say one thing and "Display of registration mark regs" (presumably part of C+U) say another, who has the last word?
Legally speaking, I suspect it's C+U, as that is encoded in law and takes parliamentary approval to change.
But if that is so, why is DVLA even poking it's nose into something it has no legal jurisdiction over?
Now I am seriously confused!
Steve
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So if DVLA say one thing and "Display of registration mark regs" (presumably part of C+U) say another, who has the last word? Legally speaking, I suspect it's C+U, as that is encoded in law and takes parliamentary approval to change. But if that is so, why is DVLA even poking it's nose into something it has no legal jurisdiction over? Now I am seriously confused! Steve The Magistrate or Judge has the last word. You usually end up stressed with a legal bill even if you are innocent
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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Thanks for the link, I now can't decide Black or Yellow its going on one of these
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It will come in handy even if you never use it
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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So if DVLA say one thing and "Display of registration mark regs" (presumably part of C+U) say another, who has the last word? Legally speaking, I suspect it's C+U, as that is encoded in law and takes parliamentary approval to change. But if that is so, why is DVLA even poking it's nose into something it has no legal jurisdiction over? Now I am seriously confused! Steve DVLA write information leaflets to try and simplify legislation - a couple of years ago, they said that black & silver plates could be fitted to historic VED class vehicles because that's how they understood Schedule 2 Part 3 of The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001. Unfortunately no-one has actually rewritten the regulation to agree yet! It's not the first balls up DVLA have made and won't be the last - how about the one that says you can't tow a trailer if your cars VIN plate doesn't show a towing weight? They've amended it slightly after complaints but it still says: "If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing." www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/weight-and-width-limits
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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May 15, 2017 16:15:22 GMT
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So if DVLA say one thing and "Display of registration mark regs" (presumably part of C+U) say another, who has the last word? Legally speaking, I suspect it's C+U, as that is encoded in law and takes parliamentary approval to change. But if that is so, why is DVLA even poking it's nose into something it has no legal jurisdiction over? Now I am seriously confused! Steve DVLA write information leaflets to try and simplify legislation - a couple of years ago, they said that black & silver plates could be fitted to historic VED class vehicles because that's how they understood Schedule 2 Part 3 of The Road Vehicles (Display of Registration Marks) Regulations 2001. Unfortunately no-one has actually rewritten the regulation to agree yet! It's not the first balls up DVLA have made and won't be the last - how about the one that says you can't tow a trailer if your cars VIN plate doesn't show a towing weight? They've amended it slightly after complaints but it still says: "If your VIN plate doesn’t list a train weight, you should not use your vehicle for towing." www.gov.uk/towing-with-car/weight-and-width-limitsThat's because cars are tested for their suitability for towing so if there is no train weight it means its either not been tested and approved (capability of brakes and handling etc) or have not been designed or built with towing in mind like the MK1 ford KA or smart car. however this should only applies to cars that have VIN plates (as in post 1997 style,I may have that year wrong) and not older cars with the simpler chassis number or plate.
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