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Oct 31, 2019 16:03:07 GMT
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This is not an issue I have got to yet but wondered if anyone can offer some advice. I'm currently knee deep in filler dust and paint is looming. The car is a Ford Pop (same as Mark's) and the gutters are going to be an issue I think. They are deep and narrow and I can see two potential issues. Pointing a gun into the bottom will cause excess build up on the gutter edge and adjacent roof, also the paint will be blown back out due to the size and shape. Any thoughts please.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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samta22
Club Retro Rides Member
Stuck in once more...
Posts: 1,272
Club RR Member Number: 32
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Body & Paint Threadsamta22
@samta22
Club Retro Rides Member 32
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Oct 31, 2019 16:34:32 GMT
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'37 Austin 7 '56 Austin A35 '58 Austin A35 '65 Triumph Herald 12/50 '69 MGB GT '74 MGB GT V8'73 TA22 Toyota Celica restoration'95 Mercedes SL320 '04 MGTF 135 'Cool Blue' (Mrs' Baby) '05 Land Rover Discovery 3 V8 '67 Abarth 595 (Mrs' runabout) '18 Disco V
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Oct 31, 2019 16:45:50 GMT
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Mark's is cut down to half height I believe.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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samta22
Club Retro Rides Member
Stuck in once more...
Posts: 1,272
Club RR Member Number: 32
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Body & Paint Threadsamta22
@samta22
Club Retro Rides Member 32
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Oct 31, 2019 16:46:57 GMT
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ah ha... should've guessed
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'37 Austin 7 '56 Austin A35 '58 Austin A35 '65 Triumph Herald 12/50 '69 MGB GT '74 MGB GT V8'73 TA22 Toyota Celica restoration'95 Mercedes SL320 '04 MGTF 135 'Cool Blue' (Mrs' Baby) '05 Land Rover Discovery 3 V8 '67 Abarth 595 (Mrs' runabout) '18 Disco V
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Oct 31, 2019 21:08:05 GMT
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This is not an issue I have got to yet but wondered if anyone can offer some advice. I'm currently knee deep in filler dust and paint is looming. The car is a Ford Pop (same as Mark's) and the gutters are going to be an issue I think. They are deep and narrow and I can see two potential issues. Pointing a gun into the bottom will cause excess build up on the gutter edge and adjacent roof, also the paint will be blown back out due to the size and shape. Any thoughts please. Give the gutters a ground coat of final paint first - on a lowish air pressure prior to painting the rest of the car - it does mean that you will have to flat the surrounding panel areas back down once the paint is dry - However now you can paint the rest of the car & the gutters without being concerned about achieving the paint coverage on the gutters / hidden areas where the over application or under application of paint may become an issue whilst attempting to do it all in one hit
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Oct 31, 2019 21:14:32 GMT
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It is indeed Paul, but my answer will work for full height too.
I masked up the outside of the gutter rail and created little masking tape 'gutters' at each end of the gutter. I also masked the roof skin to approx 1/2" from the bottom of the gutter.
I then painted the gutters with a 1/2" brush with 2-3 coats of primer, using a torch & mirror to check I had got paint on the back edge of the gutter, excess paint drained out of the gutters into the masking tape pockets.
When dry I lightly sanded the roof skin to smooth off the paint. Then I painted the car with primer normally without having to try to spray into the gutters.
Repeat the same process with the topcoat.
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Oct 31, 2019 22:44:56 GMT
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Good advice. Thanks GN and Mark. Last time I painted a Pop was the early 1980's and I can only remember the colour!
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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What you may have to do is just dress the edge of the original panel down - which will be awkward - your only other option is to butt weld the panels but I appreciate that this is easier said than done In the end I butt-welded the arch in place. It fitted very well against the original arch, and I made sure that anywhere it didn't meet up, the new panel is "below" the level of the original, which in theory means I can skim it down to the outer edge and everything will be OK. A few bits at the very back end needed persuading into place with a hammer and chisel, but it was easier to do that than to try to re-shape it while it's off the car. That bit is all covered by the plastic bumper anyway. Welded in short sections across quite a few hours, to try to minimise heat build-up, then ground down the welds, stuck a powerful torch behind it, and welded up the pin-holes, and plug welded to the inner wheelarch with a few tacks at the top where the new panel isn't very wide. I just wish I could weld without so much build-up to grind down - sometimes it's great, and sometimes it's more than 5mm above the panel.
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What you may have to do is just dress the edge of the original panel down - which will be awkward - your only other option is to butt weld the panels but I appreciate that this is easier said than done In the end I butt-welded the arch in place. It fitted very well against the original arch, and I made sure that anywhere it didn't meet up, the new panel is "below" the level of the original, which in theory means I can skim it down to the outer edge and everything will be OK. A few bits at the very back end needed persuading into place with a hammer and chisel, but it was easier to do that than to try to re-shape it while it's off the car. That bit is all covered by the plastic bumper anyway. Welded in short sections across quite a few hours, to try to minimise heat build-up, then ground down the welds, stuck a powerful torch behind it, and welded up the pin-holes, and plug welded to the inner wheelarch with a few tacks at the top where the new panel isn't very wide. I just wish I could weld without so much build-up to grind down - sometimes it's great, and sometimes it's more than 5mm above the panel. Good that you got it sorted - unfortunately there are many factors impinge on welding / welding bead - its normally to do with quality - quality of the metals, the actual welding machine being used along the wire / gas type along with the quality of the preparation - nothing wrong with your prep - but it could be poor quality steel in the panels - none the less looking very good so far
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Last Edit: Dec 2, 2019 21:08:06 GMT by Deleted
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Thanks, I suspect a combination of things. It's an old machine, and it's on the end of a 70' extension lead, neither of which will be helping.
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Dec 17, 2019 11:24:10 GMT
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Morning All, Quick question regarding seam sealer and the correct product to use if thats ok?
We're currently working our way round my old mans morris oxford estate and are wondering exactly to do with the gutters. Ive read the bit up there ^ but it seems that some sort of seam sealer was originally applied to ensure no water ingress could occur between the welded skin and the main gutter, which makes sense, so it seems sensible to replicate it?
Our thought process was to prime the area (its currently bare metalled with all seam sealer etc removed), then a light smear of seam sealer smoothed off with a special tool (also known as a cut down and profiled bit of chopping board), then normal paint over the top? Does this sound correct, and if so what sort of seam sealer would be best? Ive used tiger seal etc in the past, as well as a good number of 'siki' products, but am not sure what the best choice is for this application.
Cheers!
Pete
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Current fleet: '58 A35 (half mine) '67 11 window splitscreen vw (half mine) '77 mini 1000 (not quite 1000 any more!!) '86 Armstrong MT500 '89 XR4X4 '94 Corrado VR6 Some sort of sevenesque kit car (no age yet!!) '01 Mondeo estate 2.0 (engine eventually destined for kit car!) - scrapped, engine only left! '98 E300 estate, rusty but seemingly reliable, fast-ish tat hauler. eventual engine donor A35 van, or whats left of it after it lived in a field for many years
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Dec 17, 2019 12:41:55 GMT
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Morning All, Quick question regarding seam sealer and the correct product to use if thats ok? We're currently working our way round my old mans morris oxford estate and are wondering exactly to do with the gutters. Ive read the bit up there ^ but it seems that some sort of seam sealer was originally applied to ensure no water ingress could occur between the welded skin and the main gutter, which makes sense, so it seems sensible to replicate it? Our thought process was to prime the area (its currently bare metalled with all seam sealer etc removed), then a light smear of seam sealer smoothed off with a special tool (also known as a cut down and profiled bit of chopping board), then normal paint over the top? Does this sound correct, and if so what sort of seam sealer would be best? Ive used tiger seal etc in the past, as well as a good number of 'siki' products, but am not sure what the best choice is for this application. Cheers! Pete You have the process thought out & largely the methodology correct - seam sealer wise I would avoid anything that comes in a tin that you have to brush on purely from the basis it will be hell of a job to apply & clean up - better to use a MS (medium solids) single pack automotive seam sealer - personally I would also avoid any urethane based products - I use a Kent Industries product thats applied via a cartridge / skeleton gun and this by far is the easiest way - if you apply masking tape either side of the gutter it also aids the cleaning up process - I would always apply a primer over the sealer once its cured
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Last Edit: Dec 17, 2019 12:42:42 GMT by Deleted
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Dec 17, 2019 14:49:49 GMT
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GN, many thanks. Ive had a quick google of the kent products and found this one (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kent-Quick-Seal-Black-290ml/172756808911?epid=2294719845&hash=item28391bb4cf:g:4lAAAOSwDrNZVm4p) on ebay. Does that look suitable?
Pete
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Current fleet: '58 A35 (half mine) '67 11 window splitscreen vw (half mine) '77 mini 1000 (not quite 1000 any more!!) '86 Armstrong MT500 '89 XR4X4 '94 Corrado VR6 Some sort of sevenesque kit car (no age yet!!) '01 Mondeo estate 2.0 (engine eventually destined for kit car!) - scrapped, engine only left! '98 E300 estate, rusty but seemingly reliable, fast-ish tat hauler. eventual engine donor A35 van, or whats left of it after it lived in a field for many years
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Dec 17, 2019 17:26:23 GMT
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GN, many thanks. Ive had a quick google of the kent products and found this one (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kent-Quick-Seal-Black-290ml/172756808911?epid=2294719845&hash=item28391bb4cf:g:4lAAAOSwDrNZVm4p) on ebay. Does that look suitable? Pete Pete - That would do the job for you but the vendor is greedy at that price its about half that money with a trade account - Unfortunately Kent only sell to the trade - I use this one www.kenteurope.com/automotive/product/detail/adhesives-sealants-tapes-c29243312en/proseal-303-p20813122en/show/ but reading the specs on the one that you listed it will do the job its just faster curing than the one I use - it may be worth just checking a local automotive paint factors to see if they stock something although has already stated avoid any PU / Urethane / Silicone based sealers
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Dec 17, 2019 18:36:43 GMT
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Chris, why the aversion of PU/Urethane? any particular reasons?
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Dec 17, 2019 19:34:29 GMT
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Chris, why the aversion of PU/Urethane? any particular reasons? Mark - The MS flows, works & tools far more easily than any of the PU / Urethane products - don't get me wrong I also use PU / Urethane sealers too but not for the neat seam sealing jobs
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Dec 17, 2019 19:49:48 GMT
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Thanks for the answer, so the PU/Urethane is as good as a sealer, but just more difficult to use? Looking at the MS stuff - I cant see what the MS stands for?
Not being picky, just genuine interest in different products.
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Dec 17, 2019 20:46:57 GMT
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Thanks for the answer, so the PU/Urethane is as good as a sealer, but just more difficult to use? Looking at the MS stuff - I cant see what the MS stands for? Not being picky, just genuine interest in different products. MS normally refers to 'Medium Solids' within the automotive refinishing market (referring to paint density) - in a word I'm unsure if the same applies to sealers
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Dec 18, 2019 13:36:53 GMT
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Modified silicone.
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Last Edit: Dec 18, 2019 13:37:31 GMT by crockpot
Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Dec 18, 2019 16:47:33 GMT
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Its silicone free and therefore is a far more durable & readily paintable product - MS sealer is polymer based
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