hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Hi, I have been lurking here on and off for sometime.
I now have a problem that I sure the expertise here can solve!
I am, slowly, repairing/restoring a 1965 Bedford Dormobile. I am taking to opportunity to upgrade the electrics.
I have got a two speed wiper motor which I have modified to mount in place of the original single speed one and I intend to get a kit from Maplin which will give me a variable intermittent control.
The problem I have is the wiring. The motor is from 2002 Rover 25 and has five wires connected to it. I have looked up the Rover wiring diagram and I think identified them as Earth, 12v power, slow speed, fast speed and one other (maybe park?)
If connected to the battery with earth to negative and slow or fast to positive I get slow or fast speed. But I can't work how to get it to park. With the earth connected and 12v power connected nothing happens. I touched the 5th wire to positive and nothing happened.
On the Rover wiring diagram the fast, slow and 5th wires are connect to a switch/control unit and I can't work out what it does!
Can anybody give me a an idea on how to wire this - hopefully to a simple 4 way switch with off, slow, fast and feed to intermittent control unit.
Thanks
Steve
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I recently upgraded from single speed (from early 70s) to twin-speed (late 70s) so might be able to help. Sounds obvious but park does nothing when blades are already parked - you need to use fast/slow to move blades - then park puts them away. When I upgraded, I had to fit a 2-speed switch. 1 input (from battery via ignition switch), 3 outputs : slow / fast /park (all go direct to wiper motor) Motor has an earth direct to the body/chassis to complete the circuit. Pics might help  Just a thought - expect to have fun getting intermittent to work on fast & slow - without park at same time  Hope it makes sense.  |
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hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Thanks for reply nomad. When I checked the fast/slow connections the operating arm stopped in different places, that is not parked. I tried connecting the 12v wire, the "park" wire, then both together - the arm did not move to a park position. You used a late 70s motor mine is a 2002. Could the later version be more complicated and the "park" wire is a sensor and the wiper switch/controller keeps the fast/slow power going until the wiper parks? Or do I have a duff motor? The intermittent controller gives a pulse to the slow speed connection to start the wiper moving then turns off allowing the park control to take over giving you one wipe. Two kits available from Maplin: MK111 Adjustable Timer KitThis one gives an adjustable delay of between 2.5 and 60 seconds. You will have to fit a different potentiometer that will fit into the dashboard. K2599 Intermittent Wiper ControllerThis one gives set delays of 5, 10 & 15 seconds. |
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benjy_b
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 409
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From what I gather from this diagram:  B - 12v LG - Earth U - Fast (Earth switched) R - Slow (Earth switched) N - Park (Earth switched) |
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Last Edit: Apr 10, 2015 11:35:53 GMT by benjy_b
2005 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
1999 BMW E36 318i Touring with OM605 Mercedes Engine
1996 Lada Riva with Honda S2000 Engine
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hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Apr 10, 2015 14:29:40 GMT
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Thanks Benyj
That's the wiring diagram I found.
I interpreted your suggestion as:
B - 12v to Positive
LG - Earth to Negative
U - Fast switched to Negative
R - Slow switched to Negative
N - Park switched to Negative
I tried this, with these results:
Fast or Slow did nothing. Park direct short - wire got very hot!
What does the "Multi Function Unit" that the park wire connects to do?
Is it possible that al my messing around and trying connections has fried something in the motor?
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Apr 10, 2015 17:03:07 GMT
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Multifunction units are usually an electronic control unit. You may need a wiper motor out of something a bit older. In 90's vehicles there was a mechanical switch in the motor which activated when the wipers were moving. It closed the park connection which was an independent ignition controlled feed.
When you turned the wipers off the switch kept the park feed running the motor until it reached park position, then then switched opened meaning the wipers stopped in the park position.
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benjy_b
Yorkshire and The Humber
Posts: 409
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Apr 10, 2015 21:53:14 GMT
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Hi,
The multifunction unit takes care of the one wipe function and the function to wipe whilst using the windscreen washer.
Whilst having a quick look for a wiring diagram I did come across a few threads saying that the wiper motors failing was a common fault. But that was mainly on the intermittent function.
Did you have it working originally on both speed settings?
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2005 Subaru Forester 2.5XT
1999 BMW E36 318i Touring with OM605 Mercedes Engine
1996 Lada Riva with Honda S2000 Engine
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taurus
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,084
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Just to clarify - I'm no expert in electrics - but the basic thing I've found is that from about 2000 onwards these are controlled electronically (hence the multifuntion unit)whereas earlier wiper motors are controlled mechanically. That's a bit broad brush and some marques went electronic earlier. But if you're trying to install a new wiper motor I'd look for something that doesn't require electronic control to activate the different functions. That way wiring it up will be a whole lot easier.
Some bright spark (no pun intended) may understand the electronic side of things better and know how to set up a later motor.
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Apr 11, 2015 21:45:41 GMT
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1953 Minor (Long term project)
PT Cruiser
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786 
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Apr 12, 2015 22:21:54 GMT
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I'm just converting our old Ford 400E pick up from single to two speed wipers, but no delay position.
I'm using a motor unit from a late Triumph Spitfire and a 2 speed wiper motor switch from Durite.
The switch is actually on-on-on as you need to have a switched live in the 'off' position for the wipers to self park.
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hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Thanks for replies. Looks like I need to find an older motor. I plan on using this switch - "Rotary headlight switch dash mounted twist action" - which gives: off-on-on-on. Found it here: SwictchsI will update when I source another motor. Steve |
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Apr 13, 2015 10:08:15 GMT
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I have now read moggyman's link, which states:
"In the "off" position it connects the low speed motor winding to the parking switch in the gearbox. When the motor runs to the park position the internal switch will disconnect power and ground the motor winding to activate dynamic braking"
And Mr Sdeedy's comment "switched live in the 'off' position"
Does this mean the "park" control has to be switched so it is "live" when wipers are OFF and switched off when wipers are ON to release the "dynamic braking"?
The way I was planning to wire it was to have a permanent live feed to park, is this incorrect?
Also mentioned is "switched to earth", does this mean the 12v supply is to the motor and the fast and slow switch to earth?
My switch is OFF in the OFF position so can't do a switched "park" feed. So if I have a permanent park feed that has a relay switched by a feed from the fast/slow switches that turn it OFF when wipers are ON, will this work?
I don't want to fry my replacement motor, when I finally get it!
Steve
PS - I wrote this before I saw Mr Speedy's last post.
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Last Edit: Apr 13, 2015 10:09:54 GMT by hawk
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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Apr 13, 2015 10:55:21 GMT
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Sorry, I didn't explain very clearly in my last post for the park.
Basically, on the Triumph motor I'm using, you have a permanent live to the motor terminal for park. The switch then connects that to the low speed winding for self parking when it's in the 'off' position
Do not put 12v into the park terminal on the motor
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Apr 13, 2015 11:45:28 GMT
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Assuming your wiper switch is effectively a 1-pole 4-way, I would probably wire it with a relay like this:
relay "87" (NO) -> GND
relay "30" (COM) -> wiper "R" (SLOW)
relay "86" (C+) -> IGN (switched +12V)
relay "85" (C-) -> wiper "N" (common)
wiper "LG" (sweep) -> switch "off" (or GND *)
wiper "B" (motor) -> IGN
wiper "U" (fast) -> switch "fast"
wiper "R" (slow) -> switch "slow" + relay "30" (+ intermittent wipe unit o/p)
wiper "N" (common) -> relay "85"
switch "common" -> GND
switch "off" * -> relay "85"
switch "intermittent" -> intermittent wipe unit
switch "slow" -> wiper "R" + relay "30"
switch "fast" -> wiper "U"
* as you don't have a terminal for the off position, wire it to ground instead, though note relay will click with each sweep of the wiper.
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Apr 13, 2015 12:14:54 GMT
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hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Thanks Calamity. Is this what you described:  My switch is 4 position, but 3 pole. The off position connects to nothing. So not possible to connect switch "off" to relay "85" Should this work with the 2002 Motor I have got? Assuming I haven't fried it trying various wiring methods! or do I as mentioned earlier need an older type motor? Thanks Steve |
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Apr 15, 2015 12:20:39 GMT
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Thanks Calamity. Is this what you described: My switch is 4 position, but 3 pole. The off position connects to nothing. So not possible to connect switch "off" to relay "85" Should this work with the 2002 Motor I have got? Assuming I haven't fried it trying various wiring methods! or do I as mentioned earlier need an older type motor? Thanks Steve Actually I made a mistake in that post. switch "off" * -> relay "85" wiper "LG" but your diagram looks spot on to me regardless. It should work with the motor you have, assuming the diagram benjy_b posted is correct. if you can do a continuity check, maybe test when parked, B is shorted to N, and LG to N is open, and vice-versa mid-sweep. I'd be surprised if you had broken the motor doing what you did above. You effectively shorted the battery through the park switch B to N. It will probably still be ok, so long as you didn't leave it on too long. So by grounding LG, the relay is going to click every time the wipers sweep. If this is a problem, you need to find a 4 way switch instead. I can't think of a simple way to do it otherwise (without more relays).  Hope that helps. |
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Last Edit: Apr 15, 2015 12:40:02 GMT by Clamity
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hawk
Part of things
Posts: 27
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Apr 23, 2015 13:26:15 GMT
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Update I wired the motor as Calamity suggested. Nothing at all happened, I assume my previous experimenting fried the motor - wires got hot and smoking! So I have just got a replacement motor, as "taurus" suggested I got a '90s motor, off an '93 Rover 200, which I hoped would be more basic. The wiring diagram for the '93 motor confused me as much as the '02 one:  The '93 Motor has the same coloured five wires as the '02 one, but they are connected to different places on the motor, '93 on the left, '02 on the right:  My question is do I wire the '93 motor as Calamity's wiring or do I need to do something different? I don't want to fry another motor! Thanks. Steve |
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